N Prices rising ?

Hans Nesbitt Aug 22, 2021

  1. BigJake

    BigJake TrainBoard Member

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    What's need got to do with it?!
     
  2. in2tech

    in2tech TrainBoard Member

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    My only question is say container shipping goes back to Normal or even somehow becomes cheaper, in the future, would they decrease the price? I don't think so Tim :)
     
    MK likes this.
  3. MK

    MK TrainBoard Member

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    Like gasoline, it goes up quicker than it goes down. o_O
     
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  4. Inkaneer

    Inkaneer TrainBoard Member

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    But by the same token the same Atlas 90 ton hopper I purchased in 1982 for $2.49 would now cost $7.61. That represents an inflation rate of 205.8% over the last forty years. But the current price for that same 90 ton hopper is over 4 times that amount. You can't blame inflation alone for price increases. It is no coincidence that price increases really began when manufacturers went to China to manufacture their stuff as well as requiring preorders. Now they have to compete with others for production time. The result is that fixed costs such as production time have increased disproportionately to unit costs. The effect to customers is that manufacturer's have transferred their costs (inventory) as well as their market risk onto their customers and creating a market where unavailability and unaffordability are the prevailing conditions. This is contrary to good business practices wherein availability and affordability are absolutely vital to market growth.

    Inflation calculation obtained from this source: Inflation Calculator | Find US Dollar's Value from 1913-2021 (usinflationcalculator.com)
     
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  5. Shortround

    Shortround TrainBoard Member

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    As well as the owners wishing to live the NEW life style as displayed.
     
  6. mtntrainman

    mtntrainman TrainBoard Supporter

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    With the way prices are now....I am glad I started building my 'empire' when I did back in 2012 or I would still be stuck with my original layout !! :(

    .[​IMG]
    .
     
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  7. Shortround

    Shortround TrainBoard Member

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    That sure looks familiar. From back in the '90s.
    I still have 3 of those controllers and one about 4 times that size. Along with an SW1200 AB and 2 bulkhead flats with logs for loads.
    But no tracks.
     
  8. tehachapifan

    tehachapifan TrainBoard Member

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    Like I mentioned earlier, all the inflation (etc.) arguments are very valid make perfect sense. I get it. The problem for me is that I still see $20 the same as I saw $20 from 20 or 30 years ago. I can't see $20 as just $1 or 50 cents now as far as what I can get for it compared to back then, with the 90-ton hopper mentioned above being a perfect example. It might have a lot to do with what seems to me like a sudden, huge jump in pricing over the past 5-7 years or so. As much as I try to convince myself that it's OK and it's just inflation, there's still a limit as to what I'm willing to spend and we have, for the most part, pushed beyond that limit.

    Interesting side note.... I now spend a lot of my hobby time installing ESU and Zimo sound decoders in my locos. Those things are certainly not cheap by any stretch, but I only started doing that relatively recently. I've only known those decoders to cost what they still, for the most part, cost today. So, I don't find it quite as hard to part with my $$ for them (Zimo has gone up but not so much ESU). Now, if I was getting the same sound decoder for 30, 40 or 50 bucks cheaper 5 or so years ago, I doubt I would be as willing.
     
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  9. Dave McDonald

    Dave McDonald TrainBoard Member

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    Trains have gone up n price but in many cases, so has the level of detail. I like that many rolling stock are coming with metal wheels. If you remember the metal wheel shortage that seems it went on for years. Yes, locos have gone up some but you can get an Atlas Gold loco with DCC and Sound for about $160 street price. The Silver versions (no DCC or Sound) are about $85-90. The new run of the Kato SD70ACe UP Heritage series are $85 street price. I still consider DC locos to be not that expensive. Now it is common for rolling stock to be above $50 street price (not list or MSRP). That is two cars for the same price as a DC loco or three cars for the same price as an Atlas DCC/Sound loco. Several rolling stock manufacturers have a couple of tiers of rolling stock like Atlas has Trainman and Master Line series. The Trainman series are typically over $20 list price and $14-16 street price for newer releases. I am happy that the manufacturers are at least willing to try to make reasonable priced products for those folks who are budget conscious. For me, I have everything I want that has been released. I think I am at about 60 locos and probably 300 pieces of rolling stock. Definitely more that I can ever run. For me, I bought some stuff in the last year that was released just because I was on the fence about it and knew if I waited, I would pay more on the secondary market because of the amount produced in the pre-order system. I think the pre-order system and limited production runs have induced some panic buying as people realize that once they're gone, they're gone.
     
  10. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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    That's well said @tehachapifan and I suffer from the same. To estimate a current price on most things (automotive service, appliances, building materials, etc.), I figure what I think it should cost and then I triple it. Doing that, I find I'm close to the mark and it's shocking.
     
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  11. Inkaneer

    Inkaneer TrainBoard Member

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    So here is the question. Based upon percentage, why have prices for locomotives risen less than prices for rolling stock? My first purchase was two Atlas RS11 locomotives back in 1983. I believe they were around $65.00 retail. At the same time an Atlas 90 ton hopper was $2.49. Today an Atlas DC locomotive is about $95-$99. That price is actually under the inflation rate for the last 40 years (205.8%). At the same time the Atlas 90 ton hopper which is in their 'Trainman' Line is currently about $21.00. That is 3 times the inflation rate. Why the difference??????? I think it is obvious that price increases for rolling stock are not due to inflation. And please note that the 90 ton hopper is in Atlas' 'Trainman' line. This is the 'El Cheapo' model without all the separately applied parts.
     
  12. DCESharkman

    DCESharkman TrainBoard Member

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    When I have hundreds of locomotives that have never touched the track yet and easily 15 times that in rolling stock already. I see no need to have to buy any more locomotives or rolling stock.
     
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  13. OleSmokey

    OleSmokey TrainBoard Member

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    My biggest issue is making the engines better than they do. Cheap isn't always better. Even buying higher priced engines that you pay a couple hundred bucks for are not as good as say 10 years ago. Card were 5-10 bucks are now in the 35 buck range. Are they better? I don't see any thing better about them. If the companys Won't build them better than maybe i won't buy them. maybe give them a wake up call.:coffee:
     
    Shortround likes this.
  14. DCESharkman

    DCESharkman TrainBoard Member

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    Using US inflation rate as an argument about pricing is incorrect. Look at the actual manufacturers, they are made in a different country and those local market behaviors may be quite a bit different. So using US inflation really has little to do withy the costs, it is the cost of manufacturing in China or Japan that dictates the pricing.
     
  15. Shortround

    Shortround TrainBoard Member

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    The price of our toys is going the same as the used car lots. The big one near by is now empty and for sale. The littler ones are almost empty. While the new cars are very plentiful. But missing parts.
    I wonder why. :unsure:
    The same for my transport. Electric bikes, especially with throttle. Similar to upgraded train engines. o_O
    :ROFLMAO:

    Rich
     
  16. Inkaneer

    Inkaneer TrainBoard Member

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    Correct but that is not the whole story. How about marketing decisions that are made here in the USA? We go to a preorder system so we will not have surplus inventory. We therefore manufacture less items which causes the fixed costs to be spread over fewer items. The variable costs will remain the same or will track with the inflation rate but the fixed costs are constant no matter how many or how few items are produced. Fewer items produced means each item must shoulder more of the fixed cost, so the price then rises and the increase is not related to inflation whatsoever. Here is an example. A manufacturer produces an item. His fixed costs are $100,000 no matter how many items he produces. His variable costs are $5.00 per item. If he produces 1,000 items, the price of every item will include his fixed costs of $100 per item ($100,000/1,000) plus his variable costs of $5.00 per item. Thus, the cost of producing that item will be $105. Now, if the manufacturer decides to only produce items that have been pre-ordered and that number is 500, his fixed costs are still $100,000 and his variable costs are still $5.00 per item. So now the cost of every item is $205 ($100,000/500=$200) plus the variable cost of $5.00 per unit. And inflation has nothing to do with it. It's the pre-order system.
     
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  17. umtrr-author

    umtrr-author TrainBoard Member

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    Not N Scale, but the back cover of the February 2022 Model Railroader has a full page advertisement for an entry level train set-- straight DC "train set" diesel, three cars, caboose, steel track, basic power supply... at an MSRP of $329.95. Yes, the brand in question is heavily discounted at some but not all stores, but still. I could spend that MSRP in N (or HO) and have something far better.
     
  18. Shortround

    Shortround TrainBoard Member

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    Seeing that yesterday brought the same opinion.
     
  19. LTCTerry

    LTCTerry TrainBoard Supporter

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    Nothing to do with prices, but the description above fits me perfectly! Nice to see I'm not alone.
     
  20. mtntrainman

    mtntrainman TrainBoard Supporter

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    And us freight guys just see passneger cars as diners on main street !
    .

    [​IMG]

    .:D:D:LOL::LOL::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::coffee::coffee:
     

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