Okay, after coming back into the hobby last year after a 20 year hiatus, I had considered going the DCC route. After listening to many advantages/disadvantages and the difficulties encountered I decided to stick with the simpler and more familiar DC as my layout is quite small and will not be too difficult when wiring. However, many folks should consider this. So, what should someone joining the hobby or converting to DCC look for? Manufacturers to rely on? Systems good for beginners? Convertors with higher or lower failure rate? All the things you knowledgeable users look for.
Analog DC is sufficient for small layouts such as the hollow core door layouts that are seemingly popular today. Incurring the expense and complexity of DCC is overkill. That being said I believe all locomotives made today are DCC equipped or, at least, DCC ready. This means that should one decide to eventually go DCC it could be done fairly easily. Still there are large layouts that are strictly analog DC. See below: A very special Layout tour! Todd Treaster's Wonderful N Scale Layout and Collection - Bing video
When I got back into this a few years back after about a 50 year absence I assumed it would be via DC. I read some about DCC but didn't really understand much about it. Then visiting Dottie's family in Phoenix I went to a club layout in Sun City West. I was watching some trains run on their large HO layout and a guy there asked if I'd like to run a train. He gave me a wireless throttle and got me going. I'm like I can run this train wireless and so can others on the same tracks and we all have direction and speed control independent of each other? I was hooked, not going to DC when I can have this. I started researching options and found out I could get into a tethered throttle, command station combo for about $200 and would probably have $500-$600 down the road for a more advanced command station and a true wireless throttle. Thank goodness I didn't buy anything at that point. Read about DCC++ and a command station you could build with just a couple components. No soldering and no need for any real electronics background but did have to learn how to download the software off the internet which was a bit challenging. So I was into DCC (command station only) for under $50 and a couple hours work and learning. I also had a free (kind-of) wireless throttle in that I could use my phone to control trains. Now the guys that have taken DCC++ to a new level with DCC-EX and it is even easier and DCC-EX has evolved into a DCC solution that rivals any of the commercial units and exceeds a number of them. Starting with the DCC++ command station I spent a couple hundred more and had a couple DCC locos that had decoders already installed. I started buying eBay locos for $30-$60 and converted them to DCC for as little as $12 (most cost $16-$20) to convert. I've learned a lot which has been rewarding and love DCC and would never look back. Recently built a non-phone DCC throttle for about $50 also. Wiring for DCC is simpler than DC and even on my small test track I can run 1 to 3 locos in any direction I want at any speed while others are running and all from a wireless throttle in my hand. Never saw this coming when I returned a few years back. One doesn't have to make DCC difficult or challenging. Learn some very basic basics and buy a command station and a couple locos that are already DCC equipped and make it as easy or as difficult as you want. Has anyone on here switched to DCC and then back to DC again. I'd assume some probably have but I'll bet more never did. Sumner
I understand the many advantages of running DCC trains over traditional DC. What I am asking for others who are looking at it from the standpoint of entering this is: Specifically what to look for, and who are the most reliable makers of components. Sumner's answer above covered some very good stuff.
I would rather work the block switches on a conventional DC layout, working out which ones have to be set for which train, etc, than punch buttons on a DCC controller. Plus, there is no way I will be installing decoders in my few hundred locomotives. Doug
I would say the DC vs DCC choice depends on layout complexity and/or size: namely, the ability (and desire) to run more than one train at a time, but not necessarily on independent paths. Sure, a double track oval can run two independent trains on DC (two cabs) just fine, one on each track. And DC with block control can even manage shared trackage as well, but you end up running the layout, rather than the trains (even if block control is actually more like prototype railroads, especially if you have block signals.) But DCC brings more control to the user. Not just the trains' speed and direction, but their lights and sounds too. As to which DCC system to use, there are many popular choices. The major DCC systems manufacturers serving the US market include, in alphabetical order: Digitrax, ESU, NCE, Sprog, TCS, and Zimo. All offer different levels of systems with different capabilities and/or capacities. Beyond controlling trains, there are other functions like transponding (feedback from the locos), trackside signals, track occupancy detection, and switch/turnout control. There are proprietary and standard interfaces for these functions. I use a Pi-Sprog3 system now, but I am at ease managing an embedded Linux computer like the Raspberry Pi to run the system (with JMRI, which is essential to use Sprog systems*) It may not the best system for everyone, but it works well. It does not support locomotive transponding. I am seriously considering a new TCS DCC command station. TCS offers a conventional command station with separate WiFi throttle(s), and a command station in a throttle (like the NCE PowerCab). NMRA-standard Railcom transponding is implemented on TCS, ESU and Zimo decoders and command stations. Railcom facilitates programming on the mainline with complete and rapid readback confirmation, even while other locomotives continue to run. TCS command stations also use Railcom to more efficiently manage the available bandwidth for controlling the trains on the track. For example, when a new speed command is sent to a locomotive, and confirmed via Railcom, the command station need not continue sending duplicate throttle commands to that locomotive as frequently, freeing up bandwidth to more quickly send new commands to other locomotives. However, this doesn't really make much difference unless you have lots of trains running. TCS command stations also implement the NMRA-standard Layout Command Control (LCC) protocol over WiFi and/or CANbus. LCC interfaces to computers (e.g. running JMRI), throttles, as well as products from RR CirKits and others for track occupancy detection, signal & switch control, etc. *JMRI is a free software application that can work with most DCC systems to manage programming (configuring) locomotive decoders, as well as controlling almost every aspect of a model railroad imaginable: trains, switches (turnouts), route management, signals, train manifests, switch lists, destinations for drop-offs and pick-ups, sound, etc.
hey man pass that popcorn around. there are a lot of systems out there . It's a matter of how many $$$$$$$ you want to spend really.....
Hmmm... your post got me thinking (uh-oh!) I wonder if large scale DCC decoders could run each DC block independently, but by "consisting" the blocks, tie multiple blocks to a single throttle for across-block movements. This gives you wireless throttles (or smart phone apps) to control trains by where they are, instead of who they are. The DCC system would handle transferring blocks (like it transfers trains in normal DCC) between different throttles. Each block decoder's PWM motor output could drive the block's rails through an LC low pass filter to smooth out the PWM into pure DC, so multiple block decoders' PWM outputs would not need to be synchronized to each other.
I have NCE DCC equipment. They are local to me and I like the feel of their Power Cab throttle in my hand. I have zero interest in phone-based throttles, JMRI, etc. I'm sure they work great, but 99 percent of the time the Wilmington (past, present, future) has been operated with a single person, me. The only consists I have are pairs of FT A/Bs when I ever get around to putting decoders in them, that is. I have also committed what is seen by DCC Purists as the Ultimate Luddite Blasphemy: I have a DPDT switch wired such that I can toggle between DCC for those locos so equipped to DC for those locos which I will never convert. This One Hundred Percent Works except when there is a reversing section involved; on my former layout I did isolate one long branch line which was essentially the tail of a Wye and thus a reversing section, so no DC locos ran on that part. I have been told numerous times that This Will Never Work, I'll Short Out My Layout, I'll Bring Down the Northeast Power Grid, I'll Cause A Comet to Collide With Planet Earth, etc. Hasn't happened yet.
I have a DC/DCC selection switch on my layout too. After 50+ years in N, most everything I have is DC. I have only two DCC locomotives. I wanted the option to run and learn more about DCC, and might do so if I ever get my layout further along.
For single operators DCC may be, as I stated in my earlier post 'overkill.' However, in a club setting, DCC is not only desirable but warranted. For years our club used the MRC power packs. We then graduated to the Aristo Craft radio throttles so we could follow our train around the layout. Unfortunately, the radio throttles were discontinued and there was, at the time, nothing in analog DC to replace them. So grudgingly we went to DCC. Making that jump to DCC was huge as most of my locomotives were not DCC friendly. So, I sold off some using the proceeds to buy 'plug 'n play' locomotives. I still have some analog DC locomotives which I will keep as DC and run occasionally.
I started with an NCE system many years ago, so that I could try Soundtraxx decoders. Now retired, I find just keeping the track clean is sufficient effort for me on my twin track dog-bone layout, I do not relish the extra work and cost of installing DCC and making it reliable. Also, I did not like the stuttering for sound on dirty track. As a single operator, I find that DC is very easy to use on my multi-track mainline.
Hi I had a similar long hiatus due to the lack of a basement. But, my son finally pushed me to sell off the HO, and buy N scale which can fit in a room in the house. So, I bought a couple books, read a lot on the 'net. Started up with the NCE PowerCab DCC system. I like it. I can run 6 trains at a time, with 4 to 6 (or more) idling in the yards, and only use about 1/2 of the power output. I have NCE, TCS, Digitrax, Atlas/NCE, Atlas/Lenz, and now ESU decoders. I talked with the NCE guys about a booster, but they said "not worth it for a layout my size".I found the NCE and TCS guys are really responsive. Frank at ESU USA is good, too. The Atlas guys are always a great resource (use to live about 20 miles from their offices, used Atlas stuff since about 1960 or so with my dad). I am gradually changing to ESU LokSsound- it is fun, especially for grandchildren... I have JMRI, but not yet using it to control everything- have to write some software to integrate all of the Arduinos and sensor stuff from Azatrax (John is another really good resource). I did have some "spots of deadness" as TonkPhilip noted. So, I checked around for cleaners. I used the masonite block under the boxcar for HO, but in N, there is not that much weight. So, after looking at vacuums and other approaches, I broke down and bought a CMX from Tony's trains- it really works! I used some 91% alcohol, and it really picked up a lot of grunge. I found a bottle of 99% that I had in the garage, and now use it for cleaning. About once a month, just pull the CMX car around with a six-axle. The other thing with DCC on my layout is that there is no need for blocks as I had in DC. Also, I only have to put insulator connectors on the inner point rails, and I do not have any issues with power routing.
Lots of good reasons for going with either DC or DCC. I think the major point may be how many DC locos in your collection would have to be converted to, or replaced with, DCC-compatible ones. Note that many DCC systems can run DC locos (all at the same speed and direction, e.g. in a consist). I designed my in-progress HCD layout with the assumption of using DCC, but it could work with blocked DC too. It's complex track plan is much easier to use with DCC, but given that it was designed with that assumption, that's kind of baked in.
So you want to run DC and DCC on your layout? The newest version of DCC-EX lets you do this on the layout using a phone throttle or about any other throttle that works with JMRI's WiThrottle for both the DCC and DC loco. Yes a $50 command station that lets you change blocks on the layout to either DC or DCC without using electrical switches and run both the DC and DCC loco at the same time with the same throttle. Also the same blocks can be changed to program tracks with the throttle. I'm simple so I'm only running a couple DCC engines at the same time but look at the following video to see some of the things a DCC-EX Command Station is capable of (I'll probably never use them all but they are there and I could if I wanted to) I'm not sure if any other DCC command station out there can do all of that. I would think that if you only wanted to run DC you could probably use this to control locos with a phone throttle. Would be a very cheap way to have a DC layout with a wireless throttle that could control a couple DC locos in different districts at the same time with a single phone throttle or multiple phone throttles. Sumner
Okay, so how much does it cost to get a good DCC decoder with or without sound? That is another big consideration. And if you need to have someone install them into your locomotives, what is the going cost for that?
Most of the non sound decoders I've used were $16-$30 pre-covid and in the $25-$40 range now. Don't know what some are charging to install. That could be all over the place. I'm using '90's to early 2000's locos so some are harder installs and others are basically remove the light board and put a decoder (similar board size) where the light board was. Lots of info on decoder installs on the internet. I have some and lot of other info out there also. They aren't black magic situation. I'm sure some will find it fun and rewarding to do and not that hard to do and others won't want to do it or will just buy locos that are DCC out of the box or that are very easy to conver. No right or wrong way. A sound decoder is in the $100 range for an ESU one and I think some Digitrax are in the $70-$80 range but don't quote me on that. Sumner
