I'm thinking of using the Peco switch machines for my Peco turnouts in the areas where I decide to remotely control the turnouts. I found these Peco switch machines, but haven't figured out how they work. Is this an actual motor that you'd wire up and connect to a switch? If so, what kind of switch does it need? I'm not an electrical guru so use the KISS principle when replying. How do these things work? Specifically, what else would I NEED to make them throw the turnouts? [ 26. January 2004, 20:46: Message edited by: Hoss ]
They are the slam-bang solenoid type. The two black cylinders are the solenoids; one for each direction. Best used with a capacitor discharge unit, especially if you plan on having more than one operated at a time (eg. on a crossover). They have no spring to hold the blades in place once thrown, but the Peco turnouts have these in them already . Don't like this type myself. When I go to exhibitions all that banging from the solenoids on a busy layout just seems so .... er, unnatural . Although more expensive I find the motorised types much more satisfying . Oh, you need a momentary contact switch for them. A two-way, sprung to centre off type of switch is good, but a lot of people use use the 'stud and probe' system because it is cost effective and the studs fit into a compact mimic track diagram more easily than a switch.
Congratulations on using Peco switches -- I think they are the best. As far as the "motor", what you're looking at is two electromagnets that pull a central shaft to one side or the other. When either side is energized it will pull the rod toward it. Unfortunately, it wants at least 16 Volts and instantaneously a lot of current (I believe it will work on either AC or DC). So, don't use the switch's power supply for anything else (whatever else is attached will flicker when you switch a switch). To activate the switch, you'll want to give the coil a burst of power, but not keep it powered (so it won't get hot and melt). So you'll need a "momentary" switch. This could be a pushbutton (one for each "direction"), or a "momentary double throw, center off" toggle switch (push it to the direction you want), or just an Atlas switch machine control switch (slide the center to either side (the direction you want the switch to go) and press it to actually activate the switch motor). In all cases, a momentary press. If you can, either build or buy a capacitance-discharge circuit to supply a short high current pulse. One commercial version is the Circuitron "Snapper" (Walthers 800-5303, $30 in 2001). These supply a very short burst of adequate current to snap the switch, but then no current until you release the switch and it recharges. There are two versions of the Peco Switch Machine - standard post and extended post. The standard machine is intended to be mounted physically to the bottom of the switch ties, requiring a large hole under the switch. If you want to mount the "motor" under your layout board and have only a small slot under the center of the switch - use the extended post (or purchase the extensions, if they're still available). Finally, there is also a "Peco Switch" that can be attached to the bottom of the "Peco Switch Motor" that can be used to power signals or indicators for switch position. Hope that helped
I'd say that pretty well sums it up. A couple of questions: 1) How loud is the snap? Is it the equivalent of the snap that the turnout itself makes or is there more to it? 2) Assuming a separate power supply just for the turnouts, and assuming that I'll only be throwing turnouts one at a time (can't imagine why I'd throw more than one at a time), do you actually NEED a capacitance-discharge circuit or is that just a nice thing to have?
i have a peco solenoid too!...we did'nt put it on but there's more parts that you have to buy toactualy install it, just look around in the shops.
I'm not a fan of the snapping noise of solinoid switches, but an excellent modeler and friend of mine likes the sound. Why? Well when you hear the sound, you don't have to look to see if the points were thrown.
One question.....are the Peco turnouts high maintenance or can you just put them in and not have to worry about them? I only ask because I was reading an old MR article about simple turnout control and the author talked about what a nightmare his old twin coil solenoid switch machines were to maintain. I wondered if he had Peco turnouts or something else.
I think the turnouts and solenoids are basically maintenance-free, excepting that you need to keep them reasonably clean like everything on a model railway . That said I have heard over the years that this type (not neccessarily Peco) of 'motor' is not very reliable; though the rock bottom prices and quality of some makes may have a lot to do with that. (Note: from here on all reference to 'switch' means the electrical kind, not turnouts.) Regarding power supply. You can power these solenoids from an AC or DC supply via whatever switch method you choose. 16vac or 12vdc is the usual stuff, but you can go a bit higher or lower. Higher gives better reliability at shifting a reluctant mechanism, but at a cost of higher noise and perhaps more 'wear' on the moving parts (I always worry that the impact could (eg) break the blades off the tiebar ). The problem with the above (as Synchrochuff says) is that a high current is drawn which has several downsides. It means you need a substantial transformer/power supply that costs more and spends most of its time idling. If a switch jams or welds closed then the current will continue to flow and probably melt the motor (or worse). And the continuous high current means that your switching device has to break that current when you take your finger off - this causes arcing which requires a heftier switch and/or gives reduced switch life and/or increases the risk of the contacts welding The capacitor units (CDU) overcome these problems. They charge up over several seconds using a low current, meaning a much smaller (probably 25% or less) transformer is required, or you can power it from an existing source like an auxiliary on a controller. Also, the high current delivered at first dies away as the capacitor 'empties', so the the only long term current that can flow is the charging current - very low and not enough to burn anything out. And that same characteristic of the CDU means that the switch contact usually only has to break a small current when you release it, so arcing is much reduced. Of course the CDU will cost a bit more, but for throwing just one turnout at a time you wouldn't need anything big/fancy.
Hi Hoss OK, heres my tip for using these (which I do a lot) The prongs on the top of the switch motor connect into the bottom of the point through moulded holes in the point base.. (push the prongs through then bend them over to hold the motor in place), with the operating prong going into a hole in the end of the tie-bar. For each one in N guage, you will use the centre prongs and two of the outside ones so the motor will be offset to the point (These motors are designed to be used on both N and HO track.. hence the extra width.) Now.. the pointmotor has stops in it, which is what causes the SNAP sound as the operating bar hits the stops so as to avoid and wear on the point blades where they connect to the tie bar. (Using non-peco point motors with a throw greater than the point, can indeed rip off the point blades from the tie bar... The Peco one is designed to basically just move the tie bar beyond the centre position, so the inbuilt spring closes the point in the opposite direction) However, you then have to cut a hole in the board for the whole unit to drop into, and this can be a source of problems, especially if after you lay the track you use loose ballast and white glue... a few bits of that in the motor can cause problems... soooooooooo.. here is a simple answer When you attatch your point motor to the point, take a piece of brown paper and cut it to rectangular shape approx half an inch or a little more wider and longer than the point motor... cut a slot down the centre and then place it over the four mounting prongs you will be using with the actuating rod coming through the slot and the mounting points coming through.. then mount the motor to your point. Now.. when you lay the point in place... put some white glue round the edge of the hole on the top of the board and press the brown paper down under the point to form a seal under the point and over the hole... This way, when ballasting or scenicking, nothing can fall through the hole and into the motor. I have used this method for years and all my installations have been trouble free.. They have all been fit and forget, including some placed in a layout over 10 years ago. Hope this makes sense and helps... Regards Graham Evans http://www.colony.co.uk
buy one, they arent that expensive, try it, see what you think, if you dont like it they are only $10-15....
Thanks for the response Graham. That was very helpful, and if I do go with the Peco, I'll probably use your method. Thanks again.
While I use mostly slow motion motors to throw my turnouts, I do have a Peco and several Atlas turnouts as well. I use one power supply for all these, it consists of a power transformer rated at 12v, 8 amp. My Atlas turnouts are thrown with NJ Int. twin coil machines, they are in a hidden staging yard. I rectify the power to DC so I can use diode routing. So my actual voltage is about 10.5. Early on I was using a 12 volt 2 amp xformer, it wouldn't throw 3 or 4 machines at once. I replaced the xformer with 16 volt, still no good. Back to 12 volt, but with 8 amp, no problem throwing multiple machines! Actually I wrote this because above it was mentioned that 16 volts are needed, my experience is it is currant that is needed more than voltage. I do not use a cap discharge system but do use stud and probe to avoid welding switch contacts together. In tests I did indeed weld momentary contact push switches together. One "switch" that has been working for me tho is, I believe, by Acme. I will check next time I go to my LHS. It consists of some bronze phospher type contact strips and two (a red and a green) buttons which mount in a panel. Pushing them makes a contact, releasing them they have sufficient spring strength to break the contact. Time will tell how long they last, they see only occasional use. Gary
