OK, I am looking at building a couple of puzzle layouts in HO to play with my 'super detailed' loco's (just so I dont leave em sitting in a display case forever!). Uncoupling is the big thing in these situations (time saver and Inglenook layouts on one board). The Kadee couplers get mentioned jsut about everywhere, but its hard to find out specific information on how they work, how I should set them up, how easy it is to change a non kadee coupler for a kadee one on loco's and rolling stock, that sorta thing. If anyone has any info to set me on the right path, I'd be most appreciative. Oh yeah, and Welcome back Trainboard!
Kadee has a website which gives a lot of info. I have over 1000 cars and around 160 diesels and 2 steam engines all with Kadee mostly nbr 5 couplers. Any car kit, ready to run or engine gets Kadees installed before I put them in service, The non Kadee goes in the trash. Kadees have been around over 40 years and represent what should have been an NMRA standard coupler. Bob
Yea, I use to use them as well, they always got installed and the NMRA ones got trashed, the only problem I had with them at the time, were they are briddle and break very easily, especially during moving! Their web-site is: http://www.kadee.com
Pretty much all of todays equipment's coupler boxes will accept a Kadee coupler without any modification. As mentioned above go to their website they have the information as to which coupler works on which model. They have multiple flavors to fit just about any situation. By the way, their coupler height gauge is a must !
I have spoken to an LHS in Melbourne and the first thing he said was 'If your going Kadee, buy a height guage before you even look at your first coupler'..... Good tip Brian He (eventually) came back and reinforced everything you guys have said....#5's, delayed uncouplers are nice but not essential blah blah. Thanks for the info guys. Much appreciated.
Study how the K-D actually operates. It is not going to work like the real thing, nor as well as the old reliable Mantua loop and hook type. So you may have to re-think your puzzle a bit to suit the K-D's operation. It uncouples fine, but it will not couple simply by impact anywhere you might find a car. That complicates the puzzle. Mainly, you can not slowly back a car into another car at any location on the layout, or a curve, and have a K-D couple up successfully UNLESS you make sure there is a K-D magnet under the sitting car! If you got used to the old Mantua, Baker, or other hook type before the x2f, then it would be a snap to run puzzles, but they don't make them any more, and they didn't look like the real couplers. They wouldn't break, and they never let go unless you uncoupled them. So change your thinking to look for the magnets while working the puzzle. For your type of layout, you will have to figure out where each move must be made to, then place a magnet at that location, before you can work the puzzle. However, if you are not going to work remotely, then there is another way.... If you can arrange easy access to all of the layout, then you would be better off using the 5 finger uncoupler stick thing to open the knuckle when coupling each time it happens to be closed. That will also be more realistic in operation too!
I don't know if I'd agree on the comment about a #5 will fit most stock.. I can remember days upon days of having to drill and tap, drill and tap, sand, trim.. etc to get couples to fit Athearn engines, Stewart engines, and especially bachmann engines.
I very much disagree that you cannot back a car into another car and couple without a ramp. First, I use very few ramps, most of the uncoupling during an op session on my railroad is with skewers, ramps are reserved on a hard to reach location. I would judge my success of coupling into another car at above 90 percent at any location on my layout. I went through all the junk we used to have for couplers in the 50's and 60's and would never go back to any of them, including Mantua loops. Like anything else, Kadee may take a little tinkering at times, but it is worth it. Bob
Agree to atsfman. But I just can't see experimenting with a $300.00 steamer. Becaues if you mess up, well, you just shot a $300.00 piece of equipment. In the past I have messed up a few engines because of trying to add Kadee couplers. I have a few of their PDF files saved for future reference on the bachmann K4's, and just looking at them brings fear into my hands..
I only have two steam engines, both Santa Fe 4-8-4 by BLI and I did mount a kadee on the front of one of them. No trick at all. the 3751 I left alone. They were bought for my amusement and will run as excursion engines on my 1989 era Santa Fe during operating sessions. Bob
Well, atsfman, when I did place my call to BLI, they said that the front coupler, although a dummy can be doubleheaded. But on their new models (not like the M1b), they include a Kadee coupler for installation if needed. But it just screws in, not the norm. So right now I'll have to settle for the dummy, because there is no way, I'm risking a $350.00 investment. LOL
I'm also wondering (jsut to get back on track), if the magnetic couplers will uncouple automagically on me when I DONT want them too. For example, if I have 2 cars in a siding and want the first one, and the loco has one fixed to it, Iwould need to back up to the 2 cars, hook up, move forward one car and unhook. That move is obviously going to be pretty slow (under scale walking pace). Is my 'captive' car going to retain its coupling to the front car if I creep off the magnet that slowly?
Umm, hmm, I think the question should be.. will they uncouple, when there are a string of cars. I really don't know the answer to your question disisme, I know though, when I had a long string of cars, sometimes the Kadee's just couldn't hold them, and they'd uncouple from the weight. I've noticed this with the Bachman EZ mates, although the Kadee's held a longer train versus, my Bachmann train of just 3 cars. <grunt>
Disisme, while there is tension on the coupling the coupling will hold, only if the tension comes off the coupling whilst it's over the magnet will it uncouple. If you have very free rolling cars you will need to drive carefully to avoid it uncoupling when the tension comes off. For a small switching layout it might be better to make sure the cars do not roll too freely. I've found Kadee's almost 100% reliable in coupling on straight track (and the failures have been in my installations rather than coupler design), and they will couple fairly reliably on curves, provided they are not too sharp. You don't need a magnet to couple cars, only to 'hands free' uncouple them.
My experience is that placing magnets for uncoupling will result in unwanted uncouplings. On a previous layout, I installed the hidden type magnets on each end of passing sidings so I could leave cars there, all it takes for unwanted uncouplings is a momentary hesitation of the loco, say over a frog at slow speed, or just a bit of dirt on rail or wheel, and the resulting slack will cause uncoupling. Also, Athearn caboose's with steel wire hand rails will surge forward when attracted by the magnet, creating slack, causing the hack to uncouple. I highly recommend uncoupling by hand, using magnets only on stub ended sidings, and then only when uncoupling by hand may cause damage to structures, etc. in the way of the track. Or use electromagnets. Gary
I've found steel axles and steel weights to be a problem for being drawn in by the magnets and making slack. I have mainly kits, so I am using lead weight instead of the steel supplied and changing all the (plastic) wheels (some of which have steel axles) to P2k metal wheelsets, which are non-magnetic. Also, magnets in through areas are on a mechanism to allow them to be dropped down when not needed. For the fixed magnets I only use a half of a #308 which is fine for deliberate uncoupling but reduces the scope for accidental operation (and saves money too ) As I am building from new these activities are not a problem, but (rather like the DCC issue) they would certainly be at least a nuisance in converting an existing pike. I also found that after weathering cars with an airbrush they didn't couple so easily. Seems the thin layer of matt paint on the knuckle faces increased the friction enough that they wouldn't slide easily across each other. So I polished the striking faces with a few strokes of one of those stiff, fiberglass 'brush pencils' used for cleaning contacts and ... kazoom ... featherlight coupling. May be worth doing even if you haven't painted the couplers, as general grease and grime from handling could have a similar effect.
Gary hits the reason why I said I only use magnets on stub sidings that are hard to reach. The electromagnets are the only sure way, but they are expensive and have to be installed under the tie strip. Not worth the effort. As for the BLI, I don't understand how replacing the dummy with the Kadee they supply, using a screw, will endanger your investment. But to each his own. I have never had a train so long that it broke a Kadee #5 coupler. I have had trouble with the metoo brands however that take a set and won't stay coupled. I have one staging yard on a grade. I had a 30 car unit coal train staged that stayed there a month. It had brandx from the factory and I thought rather than go to the expense of repacing them, I would give them a try. When the coal train was finally brought out, it was in pieces as the brand x couplers diengaged all through the train. Those couplers also joined the scrap bin and Kadee declared a dividend. Anyway to Disisme, you asked, now you have some answers. Bob
With a switching puzzle layout unwanted uncoupling should not be a problem, we've replaced all the magnets on our through lines with electro magnets because of this, but in switching area's we've had no real problems.
atsfman, I will bow to your experience with backing into a car to make a remote couple. I know you can hold the knuckle open with a stick then back into it, but that is not a remote couple hands free that I was talking about. Do you re-shape the knuckle face? The only experience I have had with K-D was back when they were made with the knuckle pivot on the centerline of the shank, and the knuckle face was at 90 degrees to the centerline, which would simply push the car, rather than deflect the knuckle to one side to make it open against the spring. We tried polishing the faces, and shoving the couplers together at different speeds, even rammed two cheap plastic diesels head-on at wide open throttle with a 6 foot run at it, but only broke the couplers because neither K-D ever opened. You must have a newer design with an angled face that will move the knuckle to one side. I haven't even looked at a K-D in the last several years. The few I have are the old design where the knuckle is too thin to file an angle on the face at all. Is that the way they are made now days? If they are, then I stand corrected. OOPS!
Watash, I use nothing to couple. Once in maybe 100 tries, I might not get a good joint. Some of the cars are as much as 25 years old on this layout, all have Kadee, mostly the metal number 5, a few long shanks, and some #58s. I use the skewers only to UNCOUPLE. I do burnish the knuckle just lightly when first installed, and a minute "puff" of graphite. Now, you would have a problem I know if you lose a knuckle spring. I have had that happen and coupling is not at all reliable. The car then goes to the rip track until I replace the spring, Kadee makes a tool) or I replace the entire coupler. I have to tell you, I am amazed as I read your last post. I just can't imagine what is going on with yours. but there are a lot of modelers in this country who have visited my layout on tours, and if anyone is reading this who has visited, or operated in a crew, they will tell you I don't have that problem. BUT YOU SURE HAVE MY ATTENTION. A last comment, if the centering spring inside the coupler box isn't functioning, then you can have problems. They do get "bent out of shape" once in a while. Bob
