I currently am running a small N scale layout and am becoming frustrated with the lack of available locos. My N scale layout was modern times and in the last few months I have been selling off the rolling stock and locos as I want to model mid to early 50's in western IA. My roads will be Chicago Northwestern and Milwaukee Road ( I know they never used the same trackage). My problem is that I have been using N scale and I don't know: 1. which internet stores to buy HO products from(nearest hobby store is 2 hours away) 2. which type of track is prototypical without breaking the bank 3. which loco manufacturer has quality products (Kato and Atlas is n) 4. which radius track do the passenger trains from that era look good on? I have a NCE Powerhouse so I should be able to make the switch with my existing DCC! I also will be taking over a space in the basement of about 30 ft x 13 ft. Any help to a new HO scale modeler is greatly appreciated!!!!!!
1. As far as internet stores, I haven't used many -- I have had good service from Standard Hobby in NJ, from before they had a web presence. 2. I would go with code 83, slightly smaller than code 100, but not so small as code 70 which can cause problems with some (mostly older) wheels. If you can afford MicroEngineering track, it looks the best; otherwise even Atlas track (nickel-silver, of course) would be fine. The Atlas switches also work well, but I am a big fan of PECO with their spring holding the points in place and now their code 83 has American prototype ties. 3. Kato and Atlas are both good HO mfr's as well, to that I'd add P2K steamers (don't know about their Diesels) and Trix, followed at a little distance by Bachmann (Spectrum only) 4. Use as large a radius as you can -- the barest minimum for passenger cars would be 22" but if you can fit 30+" it would be far better -- I'm in the process of re-making my layout from 18" radius to at least 26" so I can run passenger cars as well (aside from my 55' old time cars). NCE is a good choice -- you will have lots of fun with your new layout.
If you will be buying a lot (> about $500) look at RR trains (also a TB sponsor I think). You can pay an upfront fee for a years membership and get extra discount off most stuff. I've found them pretty good to deal with from the UK.
If you are using DCC and plan on using a stall type switch machines such as Tortise, you won't want to use turnouts that lock into position.
While I am saddened by your decision, there never, ever has been a better time to be an N scaler. There are simply too many choices out there for rolling stock and locos. There are some gaps, as in all scales, but N scale has it better now than ever. That said, you say you model the 50's: Intermountain makes F units--MANY kinds of F-units. FT, F3, F7, and more are planned. Granted, the specific schemes you want are likely not yet available, but the model should be. 50's means early Geeps (Atlas), F-units (Kato, IM, MT), and early Alcos (Atlas and Kato). There's so many schemes availible in the F-unit series in N that it's mind-boggling. There's 3 manufacturers of F-units in N: IM, Micro-Trains, and Kato! mg: As for modern modeling, there's even more selection! Kato has released SD40-2's with ditch lites and other more modern accessories; AC4400CWs, Dash 9's, SD70, 80, and 90MACs... Amtrak's modern diesels are available from Kato and Atlas, Atlas has many more modern engines including dash 8 series, and others like SD60M's. The selection for rolling stock in both eras you desire is also mind-boggling. Simply too much to print! I hope you would reconsider, but if not, there's many HO scalers here than can better help you than I can.
Don't leave N! There's an even wider variety of N-scale transition era equipment than modern era equipment. ALCo: FA/B 1 (Life-Like) FA/B 2 (Life-Like) RS1 (Atlas) RS3 (Atlas, Kato) RSD4/5 (Atlas) RS11 (Atlas) DL109 (Con-cor, Life-Like) PA/B (Con-cor*, Life-Like, Kato*) Baldwin: Sharks (Bachmann) VO1000 (Atlas*) EMD: FT (IM*, MT*) F3 (IM*, Kato*) F7 (IM*, Kato*) FP7 (Model Power) BL2 (Life-Like) GP7 (Atlas) GP9 (Atlas) GP18 (Life-Like) SD7 (Atlas*, Life-Like) SD9 (Atlas*, Life-Like) SW8 (Life-Like) SW9/1200 (Life-Like) E6 (Life-Like) E7 (Con-cor, Life-Like) E8 (Con-cor, Life-Like, Kato*) E9 (Kato*) Fairbanks-Morse: H15-44 (Atlas*) H16-44 (Atlas*) TrainMaster (Atlas*) Erie-builts (Life-Like) C-Liners (Life-Like) Steam: 2-6-0 (Model Power) 2-8-0 (Bachmann) 2-6-2 (Bachmann) 2-8-2 (Kato, Model Power) 2-8-4 (Life-Like#) 2-10-2 (Con-cor*) 4-4-0 (Model Power) 4-6-2 (Model Power) 4-8-2 (Bachmann) 2-6-6-2 (Bachmann) 2-8-8-2 (Life-Like) Above locomotives are recent, available releases that have recieved an at least 75% approval rating. As you can, there's lots in N readily availible! :teeth: Don't give on Normal scale just yet Dr. J! :angel: :angel: *- locos are Plug-in DCC #- locos are a "beast" of a DCC install
I am glad you have decided to switch to HO and leave iNsigNificaNt scale behind. You are correct, there are so many more products available in HO; it is the most popular scale, after all, and has a much better level of detail than N, and will provide you with much more enjoyment overall. Congratulations!!!
Please excuse the below statement, as it does not pertain directly to the main topic. Beginning of rant This is a very hard to defend statement, as there are many n-scalers out there that achieve a very high level of detail. Case in point: You're entitled to your own opinion, I just think the certain paradigm you subscribe to is heard much too often from larger scale modelers. I try to be accepting of Z-scalers, too. I mean, look at this detail by pray59! End of rant Sorry about the ranting, just wanted to set the record straight, bigger isn't neccesarily better. Dr. J, there are several locomotives in N (the second largest scale by # of modelers!), that are decorated for CNW and Milw., look at the new Intermountain F7s, If you do choose HO, good luck, many good layouts in that scale, and much available, though don't know about CNW and Milw. :embarassed: I know that many online retailers, such as Internet Model Trains, and Discount Trains Online offer HO for sale.
N scale was developed, from 000 scale, as an option for those who didn't have room for HO. As far as I'm concerned that is the only reason for being in N scale, and fortunate it is for those w/o the room for larger scales, that it was developed. However, the advantages of HO are obvious; much greater selection, much greater range in pricing, and the heft of HO locos is very satisfying. Compare an HO Trix Big Boy, for instance with an N scale loco. The same comparison is made by O scalers, with HO, and that scale's advantage over HO is obvious, but you must have the room for O scale's minimum curves. Also, as you move up in size, all that effort to super detail is much more evident and appreciated in the larger scales.
Petey, in addition, there is also the fact that you can model the wide open spaces of the American West in N much easier, and there's a different scenery-to-model ratio, too. And I've seen N-scale locos that are better detailed than HO-scaled ones. :shade: :shade: Sorry for hijacking your thread Dr. J... :embarassed: :embarassed:
Decisions HO vs N? Interesting thread, I model in HO for a couple of pretty simple reasons, my eyes are not what they once were, HO is as small as I dare go, G would be my choice but other factors outweight that decision. I think there are about 6 different criteria that one could consider to make an objective decision about the scale. 1 - How much space do you have for your railroad? 2 - How much cash do you have to spend on RR? 3 - How important is operability, by that I mean smoothness, reliability, maneuverability. 4 - Selection of Steam Locomotives 5 - Selection of Diesel Locomotives 6 - How important is seeing the details All things being equal and if you had all the space, resources and time, the larger scale will probably win. But this decision is one of determining what is critical then important and allowing those factors to cast the final vote. This is not a time for an emotional decision. To illustrate my point, see the sample decision matrix below. Those are my scores, yours can and should be very different. Let us know what you decide, lets hope it is RC cars . . . Joe
Dr. J - I switched from HO to N and then back again to HO. Both scales (or for that matter, all scales) have their pluses and minuses. Don't see how you can go wrong regardless of the scale you pick. But, on balance - availability of items that are important to you should be the determining factor. Working on my fourth (and hopefully final) layout, I decided that scale size rail, overall fidelity to scale and availability of rolling stock (1950's-60's) was the most important. I always thought that modellers of the C&NW or Milwaukee Road had it a lot easier than those like myself who wanted to model much less popular roads. For a while, I free-lanced my railroad based on the SAL, ACL, and Southern. But. all of a sudden (and it was sudden), manufacturers discovered "my" roads. This happened first in HO. If N scale manufacturers had done it first, I would probably have N scale today, and would be even daffier than I am by having to hand-lay code 40 rail, and trying to find even smaller (lighter rail). So I've run across people who are (may I say) rabid, about the scale they've chosen - and I never, ever disagree with them.
I guess I am leaning towards HO because of the detail that I can do, not what can be done. I have an essential tremor and it makes it very hard to detail N scale. I'm not saying it cannot be done! It's just that I cannot do it. Also no matter what I have read, I still feel that the selection is larger in HO scale. Yes there probably are many CNW and MR loco's out there, but where?! I have looked at all the usual sites and cannot find them easily. I also don't feel like having to "paint" every loco I want to the road's I have chosen. jeff
There, you've said it all. Believe that if you compare the number of pages in the Walther's HO scale catalog vs. that of the combined N and Z catalog, the answer is obvious. And for a while, I was a very good customer for Micro-Scale and Walthers decals. My best efforts (~4 out of 20) paint jobs, were just no match for the factory paint jobs. Imagine my joy when I opened the first box for A Life Like GP-18 factory painted for Seaboard. While I religiously read "Model Railroader" and "Railroad Model Craftsman" every month. I do every now and then do a computer search for "HO (or Model), Railroad Name and Model Number"; as in your case, you may want to try "+HO+C&NW+F7." or +moddel+"Milwaukee+RS3." Surprising what turns up. Or I can personally recommend inquiring with Keith at Discountrails for your wants, Have had good pricing from him and he's also notified me of items he thought might be of interest to me. He's a member or "Trainboard" as "Loco 99" as I recall. Good luck with your change, I think you'll enjoy it.
How ironic, I'm going to N for space considerations and you're going to HO. Both scales have their good poins as well as less-than-good points, and I'm not going to argue in favor of either scale. Personally, I find it easier to detail in HO than N scale, even though I've seen some exquisite work in N. Internet Trains, one of our advertisers, has some pretty neat stuff in HO for sale (check out the Athearn Genesis- deeeeep discounts on the F-units). You didn't say if you were modeling steam, diesel or both, but if diesel, you should be in luck. If I had the space I would do HO, and I still will do some modeling in that scale, but because of the conditions I face (not much space), I'm going with N. I hope you're happy in HO, and we HO scalers (even we biscalar folk) will be happy to help you
Insignificant? Obviously you weren't around in the 1970s, when N scale diesels were basically junk- bad motors, jackrabbit starts & stops, service lives measured in minutes, poor detail....I could go on, but why bother? Because of the crap in N scale at the time, I went to HO. In the late 1980s, I once again checked out N scale, and the detail, reliability and availability had grown by leaps and bounds. And again jus recently, it's only gotten better! One only has to look at the work of Lance Mindheim, a Monon model in N scale, to appreciate the detail once can find (and this is a longtime HO scaler talking to you!). I have diesels & rolling stock in both HO and N scales, and due to space considerations in my new home I've been forced to go witj N scale. With the engines & rolling stock available, as well as the buildings, decent-looking track (Atlas code 55, for starters) and scenery materials, I only hope to do 1/4 as good a job as Mindheim on my scenery, and as close as possible to good as far as operating like a real railroad goes.</p> OK, off the soapbox now........
I model in N & HO but prefer HO only because it's easier for me to see. On the other hand, N is great for outrageous scenery in a limited space. Technology has more or less equalized the performance of both and with sound just now becoming available in N, it will all come down to a preference of size. Either way, you can't go wrong in my opinion. Cam
A ship in a bottle The amazing thing about a ship in a bottle is how did they do that? You know, get all that detail in that tiny space. Now to reality, some time between the ages of 40 and 50, the most perfect eyes that can find a rch in a haystack lose their ability to see detail and distinguish colors like they once did. This is a fact of living. Glasses help, but it is never again, like it was. Yesterday, I had the opportunity to see the Edmund Fitzgerald modeled to perfection. It was about five feet long and was exquiste. It would never have been so appreciated by me if it were only 2 1/2 feet long. I saw a beautiful BNSF Scale Diesel and an ATSF Mike at Don's Hobbies. They were the most impressive, detailed pieces in the shop. Mizell's has a breath taking Santa Fe PA1 ABBA right behind the cash register. They are all G scale. My point, I could easily see the details. They had a wealth of tiny N scale equipment, most I am sure super detailed, but it was a waste on me, not because I cannot appreciate it, but it is just too hard for me to look at. So, as we age, life takes a toll. I quit street rodding because I found it was no longer fun to work in the garage all night trying to feel the heads of bolts I could not see any longer. The net-net, if you have the space and the cash, bigger is wonderful. I am painfully aware that in N, I could have twice the rail or better yet, twice the space for scenery, but it would be of no value if I cannot see so well as to build and maintain it. Imagine 30 inch curves in N scale! Same as 60 in HO, right? Like the others, sorry for the soap box. You can see some lament in these words. Best, Joe
