I'm starting the benchwork on my layout very soon. I will be doing DCC with the NCE Power Cab. I'm weighing the Unitrak controllers (blue machines) against going DCC all the way when it comes to turnout control. The KATO controlers are butt ugly as everyone seems to agree. But I have a way to make them less conspicuous under the facia. But it will require planning ahead with the benchwork that I'm just starting to contemplate. Therefore I thought I'd plan ahead now. They go for around $5 each (I will have 15 turnouts to equip). How much more do I get into when I go with decoders for DCC control? Can I control several with each decoder? How much do they cost each and which are the best? A related question has to do with ease of control. I've never had DCC. I don't know how difficult it is to switch back and forth to the turouts from the locomotive control and so forth for switching operations. Does it take a bunch of moves? Can it be done quickly like a manual toggle under the facia? Or is it a pain to operate smoothly between the two. Again, I have 15 turnouts to consider. Two on the mainline will be the double crossovers from Kato Unitrak. Going smoothly between things while two trains crossover to trade tracks "on the fly" (but slow) is a consideration. Thanks for any and all help you can give me. This is a big decision. For that matter, any and all ideas concerning mounting and using the blue controlers for inconspicuousness would be welcome and desired. Also, any ideas for controlers that are less conspicuous than the blue things? Can it be set up for lights to tell the direction of the turnouts with another system? I understand that the switch has to be momentary as per the Kato electronics and that is very important. That's what may be difficult for other style of controls vs. the Kato ones. P.S. - I'm electrically challenged. A lot of fancy wiring will count any system out for me. Thank you for all your help! MARV
i thought about going with the kato turnout control, i even thought about using the dcc method. what i did was just put ground throws down. i like this method alot better. the 2 turnouts that i cannot get to manually i use the kato controller. i just mounted it under my fascia, and pretty much out of sight. i like the method with the ground throws. make it a little more realistic. dont know if this helps you any, just wanted to throw my 2 cents worth in.
Marv, I have 21 Kato turnouts and am using a lenz set 100 for DCC. Right now I have the digitrax DS52 but am changing over to the Lenz LS150s instead because they are easier to program and you can connect six turnouts to each one. Alan
Marv I use the Digitrax DS52 and the new DS64. I like the new DS64 much better. You can control up to two turnouts or 1 double crossover per output. The DS52 has 2 outputs and the DS64 has 4 outputs and 4 inputs. Keep in mind that with the crossover or two turnouts both of then will switch at the same time. Controlling the turnouts by throttle command through DCC is nice, certainly more expensive then using the Kato remote control or a momentary push button switch. Wiring is not any more complicated than a the Kato remote controllers. The DS52 works of the rail DCC signal. The DS64 is IMO a little more robust, requires Loconet cables and can be powered by a separate PS which is a good option. Hope this helps Check out some of the on line retails such as Tony Trains This will give you an idea of pricing and they have some good tutorials. UPchayne, do you have any pictures or examples of the ground throw you are using with the Kato turnouts or are you just using the manual switch on the side of the turnout. I would be interested in what you came up with
I use the Lenz LS-100/110's, the Digitrax DS-52's and the NCE Switch-Kats to power the Unitrack turnouts on the JJJ&E. I have four double crossovers and each double crossover is powered by one stationary decoder, not four. Each Lenz LS 100/110 powers four turnouts. It is the predecessor of the Lenz LS-150. Stay cool and run steam....
What about the Kato turnouts with DCC built in? Easy to program IMO. The DCC decoders that control multiple turnouts are the way to go otherwise. Consider also the visibility of your turnouts. If you're coming up on a turnout, will you know which way it's set before you get there? You have to have time to react to set the switch on your controller, including knowing the address (a number) of the switch in front of you. With DCC then, you' d want an indication of turnout direction (maybe LEDs) as well as a warning that a turnout is coming up (like the "S" signs on the prototype). You'd probably want this with DC also. Alll can be marked on a diagram/map on the fascia. DCC turnout control is quick, just hitting whatever button controls switches and entering the switch number. But if you have to run around an island to see how the switch is set on that side, then "quick" is relative. DCC would not have helped Casey Jones. And so personally I would not use DCC turnouts for small yards and industrial switching where turnouts are closely spaced. People tend to rip through switching moves as if faster is better (not really so in real life) and then will run over a switch the wrong way with a loco. Hotshots will allow their loco to continue rolling when moving the turnout and derail, over and over. The whole layout will shut down because of the short. That's easy to reset, but any other operators will be giving you the evil eye as you walk back to the power supply. As for the blue switches, you can replace one with either a momentary contact toggle switch, or a regular toggle switch hooked up to a pushbutton (set the toggle first then push the button briefly for power). The toggle position is a visual indication of how the switch is set. If you go to blue switches or toggles, run a separate bus for turnouts. And for toggles, make sure they are rated to handle your power supply amperage.
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Georgia, Verdana]steamghost[/FONT] I was not aware that KATO are manufacturing a turnout with DCC built in, would you be able to point me in the direction to find out more about this product.
sorry i do not have any pictures. and no i do not just use the turnout switch. i use the ground throws. i will get a camera from work tomorrow and get some shots taken. pretty easy to do actually.
Owen : At this point in time Kato doesn't make a turnout with DCC built in. As it is now, Kato turnouts are very DCC friendly. Stay cool and run steam.....
Not inconspicuous, but mounting them on a strip of 1"x6" board with the wire attachment end facing downward, then attaching the board to the backside of the layout benchwork, with the blue controllers facing outward of course. I have some of mine mounted this way, ganged in multiples and placed near the locations of turnouts. My benchwork is 1"x4" with 1/4" fascia so the upside-down controllers protude less than 1 1/2 inches. Still conspicuous but do not interfere with operator movement around the layout. Ben
Hi Marv, My layout has 15 #6 switches and two crossovers, I started with digitrax DN51k's but found them difficult to program reliably although some folk mount them within the KATO body. As expansion of the laout occurred I moved on to DN51's but they are a pain to program I found. I moved to DN64's and am very pleased with ease of programming, operation and what they can do. Mine are mounted on modules and get transported regularly with no problems. I use a Zephyr and find no problem jumping from loco to switch control. Happy rring with your new layout Bill
There's a simple way to operate UniTrack turnouts. It takes only a simple SPDT toggle and a small capacitor per turnout. The toggle handle indicates turnout position. Power is sent to the turnout only as long as it takes to throw it. The toggle can be mounted in a panel conventionally. And, it's really inexpensive. Check this for details and discussion: http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=34158&whichpage=1 The addition of a bicolor LED and 2 resistors gives illuminated red/green indication of turnout position should this be desired. The scheme has been in use for at least 5 years and by many modelers with excellent results. It was first published in Mainline Modeler. Feel free to send me questions.
Ray, I remember this!! are you the one who wrote the article??? If so I would like to get a copy of that article.
I'd be very surprised if they ever make one. Think about it. How would you program it? All would arrive with a common address, say 03. If you mount the turnouts in your layout, they all would respond to address 03 when you tried to program them. You'd have to temporarily attach them to the programming track before you install them in the layout. Then you'd have to remember which address you put where. Sounds like a royal mess to me.
Thank you all for the ideas. Keep it coming if you have more. I'm still tossing things around, although I have to decide very soon. There are some good ways to mount the Kato controlers without them being seen as much. The thing is - the more I look at the idea of full DCC the more it apeals to me. I didn't realize that there were startionary decoders that could handle 6 switches. That changes things a lot. It works out to around $7 per switch vs. $5 for KATO controllers. That's really insignificant in the sceme of things when you really think of it. Perhaps with a hundred switches it would be a really big deal. But when you're talking about 15 swithches, it no big deal at all. Of course you have to add the price of a couple of Switch-Kats from NCE for the double crossovers. But I pretty well have decided that they will be DCC all the way because they are so vital to rolling track changes and things like that in my multitrain high-balling. I'm hoping that those Lenz 6 station decoders are easy to do and safe for the KATOs. If they are, the extra $2 per switch is probably well worth it. Anyone know about them ("Lenz 150s") or the Switch-Kats? Thanks for all the help. I'm getting close. I'll post a track plan and the plan I'm coming up with for my access gate for around the room operation soon. I'm still reading all I can on everything from DCC to layout. I'm a big believer in planning way ahead. But then, I've been sort of planning this layout for 30 yrs. now. MARV
Marv Not sure if you are aware of this great reference for DCC Allan Gartners Wiring for DCC Good Luck
