Hello All, I am in need of Kit examples from this line. I have all the molds now and beginning to figure things out. I have enough brass etchings and parts to do quite a few PiggyPacker kits and Diesel Sand Facility kits and need examples of those kits to reference what goes in them. Also looking for any and All rolling stock kit examples. I have made contact with the company that made the etchings and those parts can be made for future production when needed. Please know that any kits We borrow will be returned and the first one produced by Our company will be included when returned. Look forward to any help I can get and also this endeavor into N scale which is New territiry for Us. The MTSB multi track signal bridge will be available within a couple of weeks if anyone has interest. Keith Wiseman Wiseman Model Services kwiseman@pqisp.com 859-484-9573
I contacted Mr. Wiseman and I'm sending him and unopened (yes unopened) Piggy Packer kit I have been saving that I came across several years ago. That way he can study it and reproduce it!!!!!!!!!!! WoooHooooo!
Thank-you Mr. Wiseman... I had been debating about getting a Piggy Packer on eBay... but the darn things are just too expensive... going for over $100.00 in most cases. This is an unreasonable price for this model IMHO. I've been waiting for someone to realize that there is still a market for this item and re-new production at a more sane price point. I certainly hope that your are going to make one at a much more reasonable price that will be within reach for most model railroaders. If you are going to make a good kit or ready-to-run model of the Piggy Packer for a price under $50.00... then I will probably be a customer of yours too.
Just curious, does anyone know what the original price of the Piggy Packer kit was. WIll try our darndest to hold close to or below that price. Unfortunately casting metal and energy required to cast stuff has nearly tripled in the last 3 years. Also It would be great if We could build a list of what was offered so I can figure out what is in all these molds. MUch is obvious, but some is really hard to figure out. Keith
Keith, I sent you a PM about the idea of reconstructing the catalog. Also, I will offer you the two kits I have, if you need them. Let me know what address. RC02 - Husky Stack (this is a single Gunderson well car) RC06 - 65' Gunderson Gondola (a common gondola on the Southern Pacific) I've always wanted a 5 unit articulated set of the Gunderson well cars...I believe NSN had a kit for it. Does anyone know for sure?
About 20 yrs ago.... I had one of these Piggy Packers in my hands 20 yrs ago... but was turned off by the price for it as a kit. The MSRP was about $50.00 and the retailer was knocking off 10% from that amount (~$45 discounted). Back then I wouldn't have considered paying so much for a vehicle kit... when most ready-to-run powered locomotives were in that same price range or LESS. Back then... had the price been about $20 to $25 I might have purchased one. Now-a-days $20 bucks IS was an RTR vehicle (like Athearns Visicoach) would cost. So even though this model would be brass and metal... there are good current benchmarks for good quality plastic vehicles that need to be considered too. Is there any chance the Piggy Packer could be made as an injection molded model instead of metal?
If you look at what is in the Piggy Packer kit, you can see why it is more expensive then most kits. The detailing and etchings are fantastic. You dont just end up with a nice model, you end up with a show piece. I would rather pay a little more for quality then less for less. 20yrs later, as was stated, these kits still fetch $100 or more on ebay. They were way ahead of their time then, and still top quality today. Going to be great seeing them done again!
You can not compare a plastic vehicle that will sell in the 10 of thousands and Be massed produced in the Orient to a specialty kit produced in the States in a One Man Shop. Understand Our goal is to revive the line and revise the kits where practical. Our casting capabilities with both metal and resin are far superior to much of the stuff done in the past. Not to re-invent the wheel. I am certain the Piggy Packer could be done injection molded. Anyone want to do all the art work and pay a minimum of $10k for the tooling. Just not practical. Based on the amount of metal in the kit etc, and with the Brass etchings involved it will probably be in that $50.00 range for the kit. We sell direct only so only the fact that there is no dealer mark up is why We will be able to keep the kit in that price range. If it were to be on the Hobby SHop shelves it would end up being a $90.00 kit. Not trying to sound curt, but the general modeling public has no clue the work and time involved in producing kits. Many times it is a labor of love. We make a decent living, but if I worked at McDonalds the same number of hours the pay scale would be similar when it comes to the time involved in making kits. Keith
Welcome to Trainboard Keith. I heard you purchased John molds, but did you get the Masters which actually give you production rights? I am not trying to stir up anything, but I have been told that someone else may actually own John's masters and copyrights for this and other projects. I would hate to see another manufacturer start-up the production process only to have the rightful owner pull the rug out. I am only asking a question and I do not own ANY of NSN materials nor any of their kits. BTW, my OMI WM #6 shay you reworked for me just before you moved to Paris is still running great.
I found this in researching copyright transfers: So, if I read this correctly, owning either the Master Detail Parts or the Production Molds gives neither one nor the other party copyright. The copyright itself would have to have been transferred for either party to claim rights. I'm no copyright lawyer, but it seems in this situation, unless the guy with the masters has a transferred copyright or beat the guy with the molds to copyright the parts he is making, it's a matter of who's first to crank out parts and apply for a copyright? Read here: http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap2.html By the way, I bought my piggy packer in 1989 through the Captain Blaster catalog for $59.95. I built it and it was a super detailed model. The hydraulic cylinders actually slid in and out, and it was a very heavy model. I traded it to Carter Fritchle (The N Scale Auto Collector guy) for 4 custom build covered hoppers because I thought it would end up breaking loose from my module and get damaged on the way to a train show. It was very detailed and I would want another, but hope someone would make it out of resin so it would be lighter and not as prone to annihilation damage if dropped.
I think because John Coots had the copyright, and he has passed away, there is no copyright violation. Whoever has the molds and makes the parts can get their own copyright.
I stayed at a holiday in express last night .. When a copywright owner dies, his estate retains the copyright .. if you google "what happens to a copywright when the ownder dies", you will see several versions of this answer
I would say then that since the estate was sold off, whoever bought the molds would have bought the copyrights too.
I stayed at a "Budget Inn"..reading lawyer speak gives me a headache !!...LOL. :tb-biggrin: I guess the real question is...did John actually copyright his work?...hmmmmm :tb-wink: .
