MicroTrains New Pullman Passenger Cars

This is not a rant, complaint, nor rip against a highly respected manufacturer. It is an observation about the new (?) or at least new to my LHS, Pullman Passenger Cars. Last Thursday the 13th, I purchased 4 MicroTrains Passenger Cars in UP livery because I am building up a decent consistent complete passenger consist to run behind my newly acquired Rivarossi Challenger in the Greyhound Scheme. I asked the LHS to put them aside for me, because they trust me as a regular reliable customer for years and they saw just how much I admired these cars.

I picked them up, and consistent with MicroTrains quality, were incredibly well detailed, brightly painted, and ran down my straight and coasted on just a nudge from my little finger. I was initially impressed and pleased.

I purchased an RPO which was about 45sf, and 3 passenger cars which were about 75sf each. I also noticed that each had body mount couplers and not the expected regular truck mount passenger couplers. So, I lashed it up behind my Challenger and the RPO made it easily through the first turn, but the long passenger cars buckled and DERAILED (no body damage) and did it every time I repeated it, either under loco power or hand power, regardless of speed.

I have a 100% Kato Unitrak layout with 11" radius turns which they failed on. I have over 600 locos, and have run close to 1000 different locos over my mainline with literally zero fail, and zero at this turn, and same goes for my rolling stock and passenger cars. I have every brand except the newest ones, and all I have are truck mounts.

I contacted my LHS and they sort of expected them to return because they anticipated these cars require very wide radius turns. The return will be made tomorrow and I will not want a refund, but use it as a store credit for something else.

Just issuing a warning, these are beautiful well detailed and otherwise well running cars but suited mostly for the big layouts among us who have very wide radius turns. I also checked out the price to retrofit truck mounted coupler sets and it was prohibitive and didn't promise a solution.

Just issuing a precaution.

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

 

MICRO TRAINS PULLMAN CARS

I think this is one of those issues where a manufacturer to their credit makes a product as close to prototype as they economically can but real world operational restrictions of our layouts restrict their use.kind of like my brass M10000 i have .works in a straight line but cant take a corner,like my 68 GTO

 

Was afraid of that!! The older Rapido-era cars never had that issue (haha yes I know they look haggard)..... and they couple close enough for us laymen...... but I had held off my MT car order until I ran one @ a shop (always do), and there you go. I am sorry they're not working for you, isn't there any griinding or clearancing you could do underneath to get those trucks swiveling better? Or go back to pizzacutter wheels to keep the flanges in? Just hate to see modern product that won't work on basically the most ubiquitous track system available.....

: (

 

Sounds like a new layout is needed.

 

I had a similar issue on my Kato layout even with a larger diameter curve. I believe it is due to the coupler distance from the pivot point of the trucks. Maybe someone much more versed in the problem can verify, or debunk, my theory......

 

I'm sure their has got to be some fix, I don't own any yet, but have been looking at them, if they are ever done in NP. I am thinking that, Like Russ said, something with a diffrent coupler box would probally do the job.

 

There is a fairly easy fix....

http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?t=123513&highlight=heavyweight

 

Thanks for input, but I am not going to change my layout and its otherwise incredible reliability for a couple of dumb old passenger cars. I will stick to truck mounted couplers on my passenger cars from now on. Lesson learned.

BTW, clearance wasn't an issue they just crumpled.

At my age, I only have two finite things left, money and time, and I am not going to waste a lot of time on this unique situation, when Kato or ConCor passenger sets will work perfectly and look darn good as well.

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

 

I run my MT heavyweights round the Kato 11" radius curves on my T-TRAK corner modules, they don't look real nice doing it, but they do it. The only problem is the trucks on the RPO rubbing against the ladders under the doors but that's nothing to do with the body mounted couplers, apart from the RPO they roll as freely around the curve as you would expect MT cars to. I just took a photo to prove it because I know some won't believe me.

 

I must be doing something wrong because, I have four of the Pullmans and three RPO's and they will all run through an 11" Unitrack curve without problems.

 

I fixed a similar issue just by elevating one side of the track just a little.

 

You guys that are saying they run on 11" radius track..

Push one by itself through the curve. Check to see if you notice some drag in the curves. The trucks rotate far enough that the wheel flanges just start to rub the under frame and cause drag. At 11" it is just starting to rub. 9 3/4" is a definite no-no.

The derailments are because of the lack of swing of the 1015 couplers. They are fine in the middle of the corner, the problem is the transition from straight to corner. The couplers are pulling the cars off. If you have easements, they should run fine. I have noticed some of my cars had really loose couplers, as in they could spin side to side. If you have cars like this, then there is probably a little more leeway and the cars run better, but they are then a pain to couple because the couplers never center properly.

I have been able to run mine on 11" if I run them by themselves but even then I have random derailments and uncouplings here and there. (This is on a Kato Unitrak test loop) If you have a reverse curve anywhere, they won't work. They are just not reliable enough for me to run them without modification, and besides that, they look better with the coupling closed up.

 

A little bit of a retraction and my reasoing for what I did....I got the cars out again tonight and played around with both stock and modified cars.

The cars will run OK on 11". If you are having problems, check for a stiff or sticking coupler.

My main reasoning for the coupler and truck swap was to close up the coupling gap. I saw what people were doing with Z couplers and I wanted closer but still be able to deal with the possiblity of tighter radius. Russell's solution is fine if you have those couplers but they have been out of production for quite a while.

There was no place to drill a hole to simply move the 1015 coupler back. When I moved it back enough for a 1016 to fit, then the trucks hit the back of the coupler box. Moving the bolster pin solved that and also gave less overhang on the ends of the car so they would work with cars with truck mounted couplers better. With moving the bolster pin, I also needed to radius a slight bit of clearance on the center beam of the car to clear the wheel flanges on toward the center of the car.

Over all, with the changes it now limits the cars to 11" as an absolute. I think before they may even negotiate 9 3/4" carefully but I wouldn't push it. I am still doing this to all my cars because the close coupling looks so much better.

 

Actually RC recently released them again and we took all they had. More should be produced later this year.

 

Thanks George, good to know. I had given up on them.

 

I spoke to both model train hobby clerks at my hobby shop and both are area-wide respected modelers in all scales, and both are familiar with the situation and both agreed to accept 3 of the 4 cars I am returning in exchange for store credit.

Geeshhh, I hate this, as I never EVER return anything to any hobby shop. After all, they are operating on a budget and I always take the little problems and fix them and never complain.

I have never seen a body mount coupler on any manufactured long passenger car before and since I have no problems with body mount couplers on some of my freight cars, I thought at the time, zero problem. My Kato unitrak has slightly elevated curves in the event I ever had a problem the trains would fall inside the layout and not over the edge. I rarely if ever have any problems with trackage, as I do maintain it regularly, and check it despite having virtually zero problems with any other loco or rolling stock in my very large inventory.

Here is where it gets weird. When I talked to both guys at my LHS, they sort of acknowledged that there is a problem with this combination, a long passenger car, body mounts and 11" or under radius turns. But I found this out. If I run a body mount coupler passenger car coupled to a truck mount, they tend to stay on the track bends at lower speeds.

I can't explain it on paper, but when I slowly re-enacted the cars on the bend, it appears the body mounts laterally pull on each other, putting pressure on the already severely turning car and I saw no binding with any parts even the edges. It is just simple physics, btw my weakest hs and college subject.

I did learn from now on my future purchases will not include passenger cars, new or used with body mount passenger cars, unless they are 57sf or shorter.

I have no ill will or opinion as there is no design or workmanship problem with these cars, that is the intentional way they were made, and in my LHS guy's opinions, are designed for guys with very large layouts with wide curves. I agree with MTL because these are very well done passenger cars, which are structured for the guys with the time, space and money for large layouts and grand consists.

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

 

Ken,

It is so good that they let you return for store credit. A very good shop there.

I bought all of the ATSF versions along with a lot of the runner and udecs to build up my fleet. I really like them and I am fortunate enough that my main lines have a 36 inch min radius and the only tight radius these see is the short S curve into the passenger siding. I just need a few more cars and I will have my heavyweight consist.

 

I cured my problems by putting pizza cutters on. Now they run great.