I am wondering what the flaw is in my thinking so I am throwing it out for feedback. I am appalled at how expensive ballast is. First of all, it comes in one size container, when many have to buy like 6 of them for one yard. There is no attempt at offering a quantity discount when it comes to ballast. In actual fact, the price of ballast is the one surprise that I didn't anticipate in pricing out a layout. I am inherently a cheap person. So here goes. Why can't a person use sifted sand for ballast, then buy the quality ballast and put it over the sand? The sand would eat up the majority of the bulk, and the other would give the bulk "looks." Even if some sand showed through, this wouldn't be a bad thing as ballast isn't uniform anyways. So has anyone tried this?
I'm somewhat cheap to and I'll have to give this a try cause there really isn't that much diff between them at N-Scale's size.
I've done this in HO- used sand as a filler (and in some places actual ballast, covered with ground foam to signify seldom-used track), so I don't see why it wouldn't work for N. Just as long as you sift it well, it should do the job. The leftover you can used for actual sand loads, beaces, desert scenery, etc.
Can't remember what I paid for my ballast (Woodlands Scenics), and did not find it prohibitively expensive. But I suppose if you have a large layout, it could get so. No reason why sifted sand could not be used as a filler, should work fine (and the sand would be free Someone at our club once used sand as ballast on his OO layout, and painted it the colour he wanted. Looked fine.
I have used the colored sand you get at craft stores, and found it to be fine especially in photos. At a club (where arguments always start), I have seen sand paper, in gray, light and dark brown, and black used quite effectively, as well as dirt and ground walnut shells. The argument was when one member measured one grain of a commercial ballast and found it to be 6" in diameter in N scale, 3" in HO. (it was closer to HO.) The colored sand measured closer to 2" in HO. You can get graded sands called grit, all the way down to powder size. I suggest you use what suits your purpose, unless you are building for museum display, or closeup photos. If it looks good, keep it. There are not that many "know-it-alls" that are going to walk up to your layout with a micrometer and try to actually measure your ballast. If one does, you can always do what we do in west Texas: Break his "bloomin' arm", and throw his stinkin' carcass in the cow lot!
Up here in the great White North (Got another 6 inches of snow last night), we just stick them in a snow bank...they won't be found until the spring thaw, sometime in mid/late April. Remember, there are two rules for Model Railroading: 1) It's my layout, I can do what I want. 2) If you disagree, see rule #1. Jeff
If you know someone who works around a soil testing lab, a milling facility, or some laboratories can get them to use a shaking seive set and separate some soil that is about the right color for you. With these they have a series of screens set up so that you can determine particle size & distribution. (I know of this from determining sand-clay-loam ratios of soils in college). Then you can get whatever scale equivalent you want. Screens can go from 1.00" thru 0.0029" (smallest is ~1/2" diameter). Interesting, but I doubt anyone would do it unless they are hyper-technical. You could do the same type of thing at home using several layers of fine window screen at a time and adjusting the overlap & number of screen thicknesses.
I'm wondering how do we guarantee that the sand, say some that we gathered in the back yard, is free of anything that might be harmful to rolling stock? How do you wash it, or screen out unwanted materials? Or better yet, how does a scale ballast manufacturer go through the process? I know that in the past I've been warned away by modeling friends. There are materials such as magnetite that can be found in some sand. I suppose that if we could be 100% certain that our ballasting job was glued in place forever, then it might be safe. But most layouts I have built or experienced usually have a certain amount that always seems work it's way loose. No matter how carefuly you try to clean or maintain. I'd be somewhat fearful of getting a few grains of magnetite in the wrong place of a pricey locomotive. (The motor.) So how does a ballast manufacturer go through the process? Maybe we could emulate their methods, and be fairly safe. I'm all for saving a few $$! Especially with so many goodies forthcoming. Such as FT's, GP7TT, etc. I need to streeeeetch those few hobby dollars in my thin wallet as far as possible, and more. BoxcabE50
I would be very wary of sand because it can contain bits of iron that even when glued down can come loose and be picked up by motors I find that sifting cat litter works very well in HO and N, as long as you don't mind gray! You could always paint it I suppose. Anyway, its really cheap, works well (I usually sift while watching television) and goes a long way. Afterall, some may think that SFSW stands for Santa Fe and Southwestern, but us employees know it means Simply Frugal, Seldom Wasted!! John
Well you could always use climping kitty litter. It's pretty close to scale. It glues together with only water and will give your layout that baking soda fresh scent.
Have you looked at "Bird Gravel" (used to put at the bottom of birdcage)? It is fairly cheap, but it would have to be painted.
I got a big bag of n-scale sized ballast free by the UP tracks near my home when I lived in Boise. Where the ballast meets the dirt, the fine powderd ballast washes out of the big chunks up closer to the track. I used one of those baking powder screens to seperate the bigger pebbles out. I also used some of it for structure roofs, and dirt roads. There was a terrible side effect though... trust me, get the most powerfull magnet you can find, and go over any sand to get any magnetic material out before you ballast your track. If not, you may get shorts in some locomotives because metal filings somehow find there way to the motors! I just use the W.S. stuff on my track now.
thanks funny thats what i use on my layout and it works fine ! also two master model rr's also use this on their layouts . i picked up a 25# bag of "playsand" at a home improvment warehouse and on the bag it said its been "cleaned and screened" and the best part a 25 lbs bag is about $ 2.25 a bag!!!!!!!! ... i agree the ballast is too pricy and is a MAJOR expense for a large layout .... good luck!!
I would also recommend, if you're going to use fresh sand and/or dirt from outdoors, that after you sift it down to the size you want, bake it on a flat pan in your oven or nuke it good in your microwave, in order to kill all the bacteria and organisms in the sand/dirt, that you really don't want growing on your layout! Pat
I buy most of my ballast in the 50lb. bag from a local supply shop that sells silica sand for sandblasting. A 50lb bag cost me $24 in Canada and it comes in fine , medium and course grades. I found it to be a perfect match for N scale ballast and rocks. I sift the course grade through a window screen mesh on the top of a 1KG coffee can and that gives me med ballast and larger rocks for the sub roadbed. I use ink washes to color the sand if it is going to be on the top layer, or sometimes I just throw a couple of lbs of it in a pot and colour it with clothes dyes. The silica sand is non magnetic and glues down perfectly with the white glue and water mix, just like the stuff from the hobby shop that costs $6 for 7 oz. Thats over $12 a lb. Multiply that times 50 a you'll realize what a deal this silica sand is. I sometimes collect black river sand and use an automotive can magnet for removing magnetic particals from it. Most automotive supply shops carry these magnets. The magnet has a handle on it and it slides up and down inside a can. You put the magnet in the sand and lift it out. All the magnetic particles attach to the magnet that is faced with a plastic cover attached to the bottom of the can. You put the magnet over the garbage can, pull up on the handle and the magnet pulls away from the plastic face and all the magnetic particles drop into the garbage can. To my great surprise some store bought ballast that I tested with this device, had magnetic particles in it. I clean all my ballast with this device now, before I put it on my layout. Occasionly I cruise the magnet over my track like a low flying UFO and you would be amazed what the magnet picks up. It is also good for removing magnetic particles that have attached themselves to the bottom of your engines. This magnet will have no trouble pulling magnetic particles out of your ballast or off your engines because it will lift my 10 lb mechanics anvil. Sorry for the manuscript on this ballast subject, but 50lbs of ballast for $24 has got to be the deal of a lifetime and it should last you that long. If anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about regarding the automotive magnetic device, just email me and I can send you a picture of it.
Thanks for the tip Gary. Sounds like a good thing to do with all ballast. Luckily all my ballast is down, and I have a very small layout anyway, so the ballast cost was not a problem.
from what BoxcabE50 said, you can make your own magnet using a length of copper wire wrapped around an iron rod hooked to a car battery. just back the car up some, and you can do it on the garage floor. the more wraps you put around the rod, the stronger the magnet. just make sure you don't arc your car frame (it's a little hard on paint)
I am also trying kitty litter on this ballast and scenery subject. I only use kitty litter that is clay, natural, and unscented. The problems I have are: 1. Too uniform in size. It need to be crushed and sifted. For N scale, it becomes almost dust size. 2. Clumping. The clay really sucks up the fluids, as would be expected. I usually use an eyedropper or bottle to apply the wetting agent. This just causes clumps. A fine spray works fine, then you can apply the glue. The clay is very dark when wet. After it dries, it is a more natural light color. I will try to get some pictures later. The brand I am using is Sani-Sorb 100 Percent Clay Cat Litter. Costs about 2.50 US$ for 25 pounds (about 11 kg).
