I just bought a Model Power 4-4-0 Atlantic knowing it had traction issues. But I didn't realize how bad they are, and that it slips with only one car. I'm considering adding Bullfrog Snot, but am concerned with electrical pickup since it has only two drivers and tender trucks for pick up. What have other MP 4-4-0 owners done? Thanks, Hank
The factory applied blackening which also extends to the wheel treads is slippyer than all get out. Running the loco upside down in a cradle while applying a very mild and fine abrasive to the treads will reduce the slipperyness. Applying a set of traction tires or Bullfrog Snot to the drivers will reduce electrical pick-up area. In retrospect it is a shame that this loco wasn't tender drive where more weight could have been applied to the loco itself.
I don't own one, so that's the disclaimer. But doesn't it have pickup wipers on the axles? How tight are they? I know that the little tenders I've converted over to Kato caboose trucks (so that the tenders pick up 8x8) roll like eels in oil. That being said, I'm also the guy that makes as much racket as anybody about some of the relatively slippery alloys on drive wheels, and 'if' you can get down to raw brass, makes a huge difference in tractive effort. I don't know if anybody has ever tried to scratch the surface to see if it is a solid alloy or plated.
Here is how I made my MP 2-6-0 into a fantastic runner. The MP 4-4-0 uses the same tender and the tender pickup sometimes is not good. You can substitute the Bachmann tender and add Bullfrog Snot. I undoldered the wires from the MP tender- used the stock drawbar - modified a Bachmann Spectrum slope back tender as shown in the photo. The #1-72 brass screw that fastens the drawbar to the tender is located .220 inches from the front of the tender floor,same as on the MP tender. As shown in the photo a 1.5mm x 4mm slot is cut in the tender floor to pass the four wires through. Connected orange and red to the right rail pickup and the gray and black to the left in the tender body. There is room for more weight, but as well as the engine runs now I don't think it is needed.. The original MP tender shell is almost a perfect fit. BTW the slopeback tender body is all metal except for a plastic plate that holds and insulates the contacts. I removed all the metal shavings in case anyone notices. Would do my MP 4-4-0 the same way but it doesn't seem to need it yet. Thanks for the tenders Bachmann!
Wow, I'm overwhelmed by your responses, thanks. I'll start with John's suggestion to remove blackening because it's the easiest with least permanent damage. Depending on the results, I may move on to Rand's tender pickup suggestion, but I have no clue what I'll find there. Then I'll think about Alhoop's replacement tender option. Though I'm hesitant about this option because I've had an MP Mogul for 3-4 years and it's a great puller, 10 cars of assorted manufacturers and wheels without the first indication of slipping. After analyzing the American's operation at eye level this afternoon, I think the tender/loco drawbar installation may be part of the problem. The drawbar has lots of play when the tender goes lower than the loco due to rough trackage through turnouts. BUT(!), when the tender rises a little higher than the loco, just a few 1/1000ths of an inch, the loco's rear drivers appear to lift a little. I think this is because the drawbar hits a plastic piece under the cab which lifts the rear of the loco's frame. I'll try to file a small angle from that plastic piece to give more clearance above the drawbar. This should allow the drawbar to rise more without lifting the frame, allowing the rear drivers to remain on the rails...wish me luck.
This toppic comes up from time to time. I wrote an article on installing a traction tire driver to the 4-4-0 in a past issue of N Scale. It is pretty easy and does not require the removal of the axle, just the press-fit wheels. The engine had intermittant electrical problems untill i bent the wipers on the tender slightly to push against the screw harder while keeping the same level of friction on the axles. The result was encoraging, doubling to tippling the tractive force of the engine whithout any observable loss of conductivity. If you can find one, get the MP Pacific TT kit. It is a better solution than Bullfrog Snot.
Thanks Daniel, I'll try to find a Pacific TT kit. I assume the two locos have the same diameter drivers....?
Check to make sure the pilot truck wheels spin freely. Mine was like that, and I had a bind in the axels in the front truck. Also check the drag on the tender, if that is creating a lot of drag, then that can kill power. Mine is still lacking a traction tire, but the blackening is gone on the drivers and with making sure that everything was as free rolling as possible, I got mine up to pulling like 10-15 40 Ft. MT boxcars and a caboose. It's actually one of my favorite loco
I think I've found a possible solution to the 4-4-0's tender lifting the rear drivers on uneven trackage such as turnouts and bridge connections. (I have Unitrack bridges connected to Peco C-55 track. The Peco railhead is only .003" higher than the Unitrack, but just enough of a difference to lift the rear drivers of the 4-4-0.) Problem: The drawbar pivot pin on the tender frame is a tight fit within the rear hole of the drawbar. This prevents the drawbar from moving freely when the tender frame goes up and down over rough trackage. When the tender's front truck is higher than the rear truck the front of the tender frame goes up. This causes the front of the drawbar to be forced up which lifts the rear of the locomotive frame, thus lifting the rear drivers off the track. Solution: I used a jeweler's rattail file to carefully elongate the rear drawbar pivot hole in the fore/aft direction only. This allows the rear of the drawbar to pivot whenever the tender frame moves up and down over rough trackage, which in turn allows the front of the drawbar to remain flat at the locomotive end. Actually, I filed the rear drawbar pivot hole at a slight angle so the hole is fairly tight when the tender frame is flat, but gives the drawbar room to pivot when the tender frame pitches upwards in front. BTW, there appears to be enough downward slack at the locomotive end of the drawbar to allow the tender and drawbar to move lower than the locomotive frame without affecting the drivers. It is only with the tender and drawbar's upward motion where the problem occurs.
I am not sure if TT Tire kits are available from Model Power. I seem to recall that MP stopped selling them after very few people were able to reassemble the Pacifics. A fast call or e-mail to them will answer the question definitively.
MP (Michael) confirmed that TT's are not offered for the Atlantic. However, I forwarded him my problem analysis and solution posted above. I'll be curious how, or if, he responds. After opening the pivot hole slightly the loco loses traction much less often. It now can pull three Athearn Overland cars only slipping at one poorly installed turnout. I'll file a little more material from the pivot hole which should correct that as well. Pity this condition was not observed and corrected with the prototype, because this is a well made and sweet running loco otherwise.
FWIW, the Atlantic type locomotive would be a 4-4-2. This is the more common American type loco, a standard 4-4-0. Nomenclature ahoy!
"...OOOPS, how right you are - note to self: Schedule Alzheimer Test...." Hank- Nothing to do with it. Some of us, myself incuded, just have trouble counting up to 10.
My mistake was continuing on to add 2 thumbs, rather than stopping at 4 fingers + 4 fingers....oh well, too soon old, too late smart. :tb-embarrassed:
No way! One, Two, Three, Four-four-two, Five, Six, Trains, Trains, um...... twelve? Aw, hell.... :tb-tongue:
The Pacific TT kit works on the 4-4-0. The Mike set will work on the 2-6-0. If you can locate the kit, I would be happy to do the conversion on your engine. PM me if you would like to arrange something.
Thanks Daniel, but I'd prefer to leave the 4-4-0 drivers in their original condition and try to level my two poorly installed turnouts instead. Filing the drawbar pivot hole at the tender end has had a significant effect in reducing slipping. It now only occurs at those turnouts. Also, this engine has limited power pickup even with the tender trucks, and adding a TT would cut driver pickup in half. I'm curious why manufacturers of small steamers haven't included power pickup on the pilot trucks, at least not on those that I'm aware of.
