Ok guys, I've had a big HO layout in the attic for years, wired for DC. Mostly Atlas turnouts, code 100 NiAg track. I'm curious about switching to DCC but it sounds like a huge amount of work - the wiring sounds like a nightmare (I thought that simplified wiring was supposed to be an advantage of DCC), and I'm guessing I would have to replace all my turnouts? The expense of that would be bad, but tearing up the whole layout is worse. Plus the DCC systems are pretty complicated and it's not easy to determine what I would need to buy. Sounds like a huge amount of hassle with plenty of aggravation if there is a short somewhere, plus huge cost - am I right to walk away from the idea? Sounds like it involves more wire than for a DC block system! Thanks, BoomerRail
Yes.Absolutly. No question. It is worth it!! I have a 30x42' basement filler. 2 buss wires, feeder wires to track every 6'. Atlas code 100 rail and turnouts, some 20 yrs old. Digitrax Super Empire Builder is my choice for control. I have a buddie that does all my decoder installs. Once you try dcc, you'll love it. Terry in NW Wisconsin
I will second the above; I have two layouts run on DCC would have any other way. One Lenz 90 and a Powercab. I prefer the Power cab myself. But not difficult at all; if your layout is presently running on DC then it will certainly run on DCC even better.
YES Since the layout is wired, and assuming that it might be wired for two or more cabs, you have block switches. Based on the above assumption then: You already have a buss line (maybe more then 2). No need to do a major rewiring at this time. You already have track feeders. You may have a reversing section or two or more. If the above three items above are true then: Disconnect all DC power sources from the track buss lines. You can still use them to power the switch motors. Set all the block switches to the same buss line If you have any reversing sections you can do the reversing by hand as you did with with DC, but an auto reverser (AR) makes it nicer and you don't have to remember to flip the switch. An AR is needed for each reversing section. There are some products on the market that contain multiple ARs and will control multiple reversing sections. Hook up the DCC system of your choice to the selected buss and enjoy. Hope this helps, Gary
YES. I had run DC for decades and over the years, because friends of mine had taken the responsibility to wire certain areas of it, it was a virtual rat's next of wiring of different colors, wire sizes, connector types, etc., etc. So, after debating the issue for years, I decided to jump off the deep end and go with a Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio starter set, two extra radio throttles and a whole bunch of other extras and decoders for engines I regularly ran on top of my old DC wiring. At this point, I had never installed a decoder in my life, I had not even run on a DCC layout. I was totally "green". It seemed complicated at first, but only because it was something I knew virtually nothing about. Luckily for people like me, the internet is full of how-to's, diagrams, tutorials, case studies, and ways of doing things that work. I used all of these resources and pretty soon, it didn't seem so intimidating. Now, it's not intimidating at all. So...I decided the trick was to build a DCC "test" module to familiarize myself by gaining hands-on experience in all aspects of DCC electronics and operations before I started in on my layout. This proved to be invaluable and accelerated my learning curve considerably. ADDITIONALLY, since I had not yet modified my layout in any way, I could still run trains on it using my old DC electronics, while learning about DCC on my little 1' X 6' double-tracked, stub-ended test module. I chose to completely re-wire the 6' modules comprising my modular layout because of the deteriorating condition of my old wiring, and its illogical and overly complicated siding and block controls. After a week or so of evenings doing research, asking questions and reading articles about DCC wiring I decided that Ntrak' DCC standards were the answers to my problems since my layout is portable. I also decided to put a 22 ga. feeder on the bottom of each piece of rail, using rail joiners for mechanical positioning but not for carrying current. That one decision is what cost me many hours of work, because it meant I had to install hundreds of feeders, and figure out how to solder them to the bottoms of the rail foot AFTER my ME code 55 flex was already glued down and ballasted. However, all that work was well worth it, and I am extremely happy (meaning I could not be happier) with the results. I remember all the toggle switches I had to throw and the throttle change just to get from red line to yellow line, my sidings being powered by Tortoises underneath the layout to allow me to park engines on my tracks, some sidings gapped in the middle to allow me to break up a motive power consists over that gap when my layout was DC...all of those things are now simply nothing I have to worry about, much less even think about. And...I have the added feature of sound in many of my engines, allowing me to use whistle signals as per my prototype's practices in the transition era. It adds another whole dimension to operations. I cannot say enough about it. Yeah, it was a lot of work for me, but I would not have it any other way. A resounding "YES" for DCC. Cheers! Bob Gilmore PS...Here's a photo of the underside of my modules when I was rewiring them. Luckily for me, I could sit them on their backs to work on them, 6 feet at a time. It would have taken me much longer to have done this crawling around underneath. By the way, this wiring is exponentially more simple than my previous DC wiring. Here's my portable power board sitting on the floor before I built a stand for it.
Yes, yes, yes - it is worth it. I wired my railroad with cab control, set up for 4 throttles, even though I only owned two initially. When I decided a few years ago to change over I just wired the DCC unit in place of one throttle and disconnected the second throttle from the control panels. Now instead of setting up block switches for a particular route and throttle, running to different control panels, it's just a matter of selecting the loco and operating it. I've added decoders to 8 or 9 locos so far, have 3 or 4 to go. I have gradually been rewiring, replacing the sphaghetti wiring with power districts, removing the cab control switches from the control panel as the blocks are moved to the bus wiring. You don't have to do the rewire right away or buy all the equipment at once. I have five reversing sections, counting the turntable, which I controlled polarity with DPDT switches. The switches still worked fine in DCC. I now have replaced three toggles with auto-reversers but the other two will remain as toggles for the foreseeable future. Once I finish my power district rewire then I will get additional circuit breakers and perhaps a booster if I ever find myself running more than the original system can handle in current draw. Because blocks are relatively short in length, and typically have only one or two locomotives in them, voltage drop with smaller wiring did not seem to be a problem using DCC with the old cab control wiring. I did use common rail and do have multiple feeders to the common rail which may have helped. (Obviously the power district rewiring I am now doing will require a couple of new gaps in the common rail.) I also am not running big power - 1 loco most of the time but a couple are old style Bowser locos with open frame motors so there is some current draw. The only additional feeders I needed were in one reversing section which is about 20 feet long that got the first auto-reverser. The original feeders were at one end. When a loco shorted the other end there wasn't enough current to trip the reverser. If I increased the reverser sensitivity it tripped when it wasn't supposed to. It took me a few weeks but I finally looked at the feeder locations! Another feeder pair fixed the problem. Sorry for the long answer - thought I'd pass on my experience in case it helps with your decision. George V.
Yes, BUT, it requires you to do some research. With DCC, never assume. The Internet is absolutely loaded with all kinds of DCC info if you do some searching. The way DCC is evolving, books on DCC can get old in some respects, quite rapidly. We can do so much more with digital control. A comparison, at one time we had to get up and walk over to the TV set to turn it on, change channels, adjust the volume, slap the side of the set for a better picture. Now we move one thumb. Rich
No, No, No, It isn't worth the time it takes and the money it cost. There, that shouldn't win any poopularity contests. For me I have way to many analog DC, type locomotives. Most of which will be difficult at best to hardwire in those costly decoders. Those that are DC ready will be easier to convert. What you thought I was kidding? Did I use a "Grin" after it? No I wasn't kidding. With regard to the wiring, it isn't the installation that's a problem as I can do that on any pre-existing layout and it's even easier on a new one. Downside the programming can be a real pain in the A$$. The CV's are no fun to work with requiring some sort of mathematical genius who understands logrithums (spelling intended). Me thinks I just proved I'ma not. Grin. Upside, there are three layouts (that I know of) in the Big Bear Valley, that have and operate on both analog DC and DCC. Mine is one of them. As some of you know I'ma on a set income with a negative influence on my spending abilities aka budgetary concerns. The news I hear coming out of the big house in DC (and that ain't analog) tells me they (whoever they are) will slowly eat away at the help I presently get. For sure the landlord, stores, oil companies and utilities WILL. Never mind the cost of co-pays for prescriptions and medical procedures have gone up. Where's my violin? Time to play a sad tune...grin! Anyway, all things considered............. it makes it tough to see my way into a 100% DCC conversion. So, No, it isn't. I can do without it and still spend hours of fun pushing train cars around in the yards and industries, running those through freights and crack passenger trains. No problem and I can do without....if the need arises. I do end up throwing a lot of toggle switches as well as track switches. I don't mind...where's the fun if you don't. Better then any alternative....like not having a train layout....at all.
I can get into more trouble than Rick H can. I advise staying with DC since you know how it works, but I can also say that you can install radio control and onboard batteries in HO and never wire a layout again. R/C equipment can be bought for less than DCC (I will hear about that but I can back up the cost issue) and just imagine a layout with no wiring, no wheel/track cleaning, no learning curve...just running trains without worries. If you want operation and not just watching trains run in circles while drinking a beer then maybe you would like the advantages of "wireless-ness". I won't post any links here since I did so once and it got deleted, just Google radio control model trains and check things out. Woodie C Greene
If I were starting over (like switching to HO), yes, I would go with DCC. I have way too much older N scale equipment to switch over, so I stay with DC. I'm familiar with it and know how it works. That being said, I do love how DCC gives you all the options with speed, lighting and sound.
LOL, I don't know. Me get's into some pretty serious scraps here. LOL I do like the idea of battery powered but where do you put all the gizmo's you need in my N scale train locomotives?
i'm sure you guys are sick of my ho garden railway videos, but this is the most convincing reason to go DCC. An outdoor layout running in snow. You can't run DC in wet weather. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-B-G3S9VMQ Although woody has a good point about radio control, I like to run roundy roundy for long sessions. I doubt RC could handle it for such extended full blast running.
Traingeeky...I could never tire of seeing a garden railway operating through the snow. Now if you want to put the crown jewels on your operation, let's see a working snow plow. OOOOh that would be nice!!
You could say I was starting over when starting my current layout, my first DCC one, but I was not changing scales. When I started building it I had only 1 DCC equipped locomotive and all the rest (50 or so) were not DCC ready. Over the past 8 plus years I have purchased decoders 1, 2 or 3 at a time and have slowly converted (hard wired and milled the frame as needed) about 1/7 of the older ones and plan to convert more of them, but not all. Some of them are not good runners, they are from the 70s and early 80s. I'm not trying to say that it has been easy or cheap, to convert the older locos, but it can be done and they don't have to be converted all at one time. Gary PS I DON'T run the DC locos on the DCC layout because I don't like the noise they make. Have read about motors melting in DC locos Have seen photos of the melted motors I know that it is said, that it is safe to run DC locos on a DCC layout, but...
For someone like me, I need DCC like another hole in my head......tho I have DCC on my layout (NCE). I run one train at a time. The major issue is cost. Everything cost more add 50-100% over DC....all the features that make DCC a viable system have a cost and then add to complexity.....forget about KISS? I do like the DCC throttle control but the sound (aka: noise) is a joke (IMO). Add 100 bucks to the price of an engine. Sure, you'll spend a boat load of cash DCC to your brass but it will keep you busy.....and otherwise distract from MODELING, if that is your want. RC would be the cat's ass but there is not the on going monetary incentive for a manufacture of gizmos, it appears. The reasons given against it are many, varied, and mainly BS. RC guys with multi thousand dollar aircraft don't appear to be overly worried about their model flying off into the wild blue yonder. RRs have no WBY. If you don't like my opinion, I have others.
Maybe I'm a techno-retro, but I have to say "NO". Not worth it to ME. Yes I do see the advantages - what's not to like about the ability to run individual locos independently on any section of your layout at any time? For me, it comes down to time and money - and what my goals are for the model railroad I want. I have MANY locos, none with decoders. And when it comes down to it, I'm never terribly inconvenienced by DC - I like to watch my trains run, and I can run two at a time. Not into operations and switching. I have a limited budget, so must choose the things that matter most: modeling specific passenger trains, enhancing my scenery, adding detail where and when I can. I also freely admit that electronics of any type is more frustrating than fun. Add in the bewildering posts I see sent in regarding DCC wiring/programming/operation/troubleshooting and I'm outta here! BUT...it's going to be you that answers the question - is it worth it to YOU? I'm thinking by the way you posted the question...even that you asked the question...tells me you should give it a try, just to know! But yeah...give me DC...I'm happy.
Strictly in terms of layout wiring and control, the answer is almost always "Yes" to DCC. But several people have mentioned the REAL deciding factor: decoder cost and installation time. You have to figure your potential budget (time and money) to install decoders in your locomotives. Non-sound decoders run from about $25 to $60; let's say $40 each just for discussion. If you're willing to spend a thousand bucks on decoders, you can do about 25 engines. That kinda puts it in perspective.
I have a 6-1/2' wide x 46' long walk-in HO scale layout that is also analog DC. I compare flipping the A-B Cab control switches to the prototypical dispatcher's job. 95% of the time trains run on my layout, I am the sole operator. The A-B cab switches have become second nature; it's easy as my layout is a shelf-type walk-around with tethered, memory throttles, and the cab switches are on small track diagrams along the route, making it easy to determine which is which. I've watched DCC operators put their glasses on to peer at the locomotives to get the number, then peer back on their controller to punch in the numbers, hopefully getting it right the first time. I don't have to worry about that. And I haven't even gotten to the cost factor of converting all my otherwise perfectly fine locomotives, some with Gyralites, all with reversing lights and lit numberboards mostly with 1.5v incandescent bulbs. (And while I'm on the subject of bulbs, I have not yet seen any LED bulbs that give just the right warm glow for the headlights on my circa mid-60s time frame on the layout). And not to mention my dozens of passenger cars and cabooses (cabeese?) with flicker-free circuits. All that being said, I see no big advantage to switching over to DCC, at least at this time. I like keeping things KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid!), and also subscribe to the theory, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". And as far as sound goes, I'm deaf. Completely. So that's a moot point for me, lol. For the money that it'd take to do so, I'd much rather expand the layout, or get some FSM buildings! But that's just me. (Puts on flame suit.) :frustrated: John
