[I am posting this because I sincerely believe that many newcomers to the train hobby are being turn-off by Bachmann! And in the hope that Bachmann’s eyes will be opened. However, my experience with Bachmann leads me to believe otherwise, and necessitates my use of indirect methods of communication. The following is my view based on my experience with Bachmann USA, and on many hours of web research.] Where do most newcomers go for Bachmann-Technical-Support? They go to the “ASK THE BACH-MAN” forum. Why do they go there? They go there because this is where they are naturally directed by the design of the site. Because of the prominence of the forum, and the phrasing of its name, most newcomers will go to the forum thinking they are going to Bachmann-Technical-Support. Also, the design and administration of the forum aids this misconception. Especially when the forum does not direct forum user’s to Bachmann “real” Technical-Support, and when posts that would do so suddenly disappear from the forum. What is wrong with newcomers going to this forum for Bachmann-Technical-Support first? [Check it out for yourself! Are there misleading responses that are typically not challenged or corrected? Can responses from Bachmann-Technical-Support be reasonably identified? Are some posts and/or replies that might negatively affect sales suddenly disappearing from the forum? Who is the forum benefiting the most, users trying to resolve technical problems, or short-term Bachmann sales?] Is this Bachmann forum trustworthy? My experience says no! [The following is part of a post from somebody else in 2009: I'm also placing this here as sort of a backup in case the post gets deleted at the Bachmann forum. I feel that I was not inflammatory and tried to stick to just the facts.] [The following is for those who might think that I am interested in bashing Bachmann. My purchases of HO trains has been nearly all Bachmann, is numerous in variety & quantity, and I am happy with the quality (for the price paid) and “Parts & Service” of these products. I am also retired and accustom to doing my own Technical-Support when required. A commend Bachmann for the low prices that can be found for their products. But, I for one would rather pay higher prices, than to see newcomers (especially kids) turn-off to the train hobby.]
My first and only experience with Bachmann was bad. I sent a nearly new Spectrum series SD-45 (my first N-scale engine) that was acting up in for service. It took them 3 months to take another one off the shelf and send it to me, with the body shell not fully installed on the chassis. The nose was cocked forward bending the hand rails out of shape, a broken window visor, had the rapido couplers on it instead of the MT body mount ones I had installed on mine. The replacement ran like crap too, to the point I had to solder wires from the motor contacts to the board to get any kind of decent running. It has sat in a box for the last 4 years. This experience didn't turn me off from the hobby. It turned me on to the quality of Kato and Atlas. I haven't bought a Bachmann product since, & probably won't. Ever.
The first misconception about any model railroading site, or forum, whether it is sponsored by an actual model making company, a group, or an individual, is that you can count on answers to questions posed being correct, or authoritative, let alone coming from a company rep, no matter how the subforum is titled. The great downfall of Internet website/forums of every kind is that you normally have no idea whatever of the credentials of the responding posters and many in responding demonstrate that they know a lot less about a subject than they think they do. Personally, I find at least one half the responses I read to questions posed to be no more than marginally correct, too vague to really be useful, or downright wrong. I don't fault Bachmann's site any more than I do virtually every other website I visit. Try getting a straight answer, or even just an actual direct response, from the web people responsible for monitoring these sites. Pulling teeth is generally far easier. To a degree this is understandable as this assignment is not their full time job. Since their time is limited they will generally rely on outsiders to provide answers, even failing to offer any comment if the posted replies to a question are not fully accurate. If one has a real product question, be they newcomer or an experienced hobbyist, they should do the actually intelligent and logical thing traditional hobbyists have done forever and contact the manufacturer directly for a one-on-one interaction, not fool around with questionable answers offered on some website, no matter how their subforums are titled. NYW&B
This response is good advice. However, I would like to add an alternative when direct one-on-one interaction is inconvenient or not available. Read multiple posts on multiple forums, similar to the many product review posts provided on Amazon. You quickly will get a feeling of which poster has an axe to grind, which poster has stars in their eyes, and which poster is providing accurate and honest information. By balancing what you read, you can make an informed decision that fits your situation.
I have owned two Bachmanns, both Spectrum steamers. The first was a J Class 4-8-4, and it could not be made to run smoothly. I kept the auxiliary tender and shipped it off to a buyer on eBay with the honest description of its nature. Last year I found maybe THE last C&O Spectrum Heavy Mountain, an engine that enjoys very good ratings on the forums. I had a QSI Titan installed, and must say it is a very nice locomotive. Generally, the plain-Jane Bachmanns are hit and miss. The Spectrums, while still populated by a few plugs, are a much better quality of a product. I have never attempted to contact Bachmann about the J. I just didn't have confidence in it. It ran well at speed, but at 15 scale mph it jerked. That bothered me. Caveat emptor is a wise aphorism that generalizes to all forums of public exchange, whether for goods at a market or here where we attempt to influence each other in one way or another. The savvy forum denizen reads. Then she reads some more. Then she moves to another forum and searches for the discussions of the same topic and reads still more. Eventually a consensus builds which, serving as an anchor point, is one on which our savvy forumite can generate more refined questions or ones that reflect a more current product or service. In other words, the numbers will tell us if a particular product is generally of poor quality or design. We'll hear about it or read about it more widely than contrary opinions.
Without a lot of details (on purpose), the Bachmann Forum used to be quite good. The non-model-railroaders that run Bachmann decided they would handle it all in house, and those who had a clue were ignored or even asked to leave. I used to be very active on the forums. I used to do a lot WITH Bachmann, but attitudinal deficiencies prevailed on their part, and I am no longer involved, and that has been some time. You have wanna-be's who have no clue, you have Kalmbach contributing editors who really have no clue, and someone from the nmra promoting his ideology of what he thinks should be. I have been dumping my Bachmann stuff as fast as I can. The only ones I really keep on-hand are those that have been regeared and re-motored. I could tell you why they are regeared and re-motored, but it isn't worth the flack. It has been disappointment after disappointment, and I'm done. In Half Zero, I have a lot of stuff that does run, just fine, and is reliable....Varney, English, Mantua, old Athearn, and PennLine. I wouldn't own a Half Zero Bachmann if it was given to me (and they have been, and I either give them away or trash them). Yeah, I have a poor attitude....but I came by it from experience. Service? Gimme a break, and not my leg. We used to have to get parts for engine power trucks....order a top plate, you got a bottom plate. Why? Because they looked at the locomotive upside down is why. Link coupler pockets were called "bookshelves". For a long time you couldn't get freight car trucks....one day I asked if they had bolsters. Yes. Sideframes? Yes. Wheels? Yes. Couplers? Yes. Screws? Yes. They didn't know they had trucks. We ordered parts and built our own. Limited functionality dcc? I could literally write a book.
Well now I guess I have to compleatly disagree with you. In HO scale I had a number of spectrum models and they all ran great. Same in N scale, I have 5 different locos at this time. I did have to adjust a couple of them , but it was really no problem. Now to get back to Tech Support / Service, I have to give them an "A". I sent two locos in a few weeks ago with burnt out motors. ( Think it was my fault they burnt up, OOPS ! ) After 1 week I received a call asking about what I wanted to replace them with. Within another week I received the replacement locos, both of which ran perfectly. So within 2 weeks I sent and received back both locos,AND this was just a couple weeks before Christmas. Can't beat that IMO .Maybe I've been lucky, but I have heard more than a few good stories about their service. If Bachmann has the locos I want I will continue to buy from them without hesitation ......Mike
i felt the need to post this comment: i bought my son two Bachman spectrum locomotives over 20 years ago. he is now an adult and refinding his way into the hobby. i sent him the two locomotives which were in storage for the last 15 years. upon arrival, only one of the two operated. he contacted Bachman to find out about repair possibilities and they told him their products have a lifetime guarrantee. He sent it to them and they sent him a brand new one. All this after 20+ years! All I can say is that they do stand behind their products, at least in this incident Respectfully Gary L Lake Dillensnyder
Is this Bachmann forum trustworthy? I hope nobody will be offended if I refocus this discussion on the main question of the original post. So far I count, 2 No’s and 0 Yes’s from replies about experiences with this Bachmann forum.
Precisely. I do not ever refer to tech support (or repair) as "replacement". I know far too many people, personally, who bought a Bachmann engine, added brass casting details, custom lettering....and had it fail. Returned to Service, three weeks later they got a "new" engine, with $100 worth of their stuff now in the crusher on the loading dock. I suppose if you can be happy with a new engine, great. If it meant something to you, not so great. If they can send me parts to fix mine, I'll deal with it. Otherwise, I repower it. Remember the Daylight and AFT with axles that split? In scales other than Nano and half Zero, old stuff is not warrantied, nor anything off evilbait of garage sales. They changed that policy a couple of years ago due to abuse. I was involved with the discussion. Still, if you're happy with them throwing another locomotive at you every time it breaks, that is then a good deal. But, to the issue of their Forum, again. Used to be very good, not so much anymore. Seems to attract the folks who think they know something, and are willing to spout off like seasoned experts on any subject. It really got bad when the one moderator became at least two. I know who they are...makes no difference.....but you can spot the attitude difference between the two real easy if you watch. Call Service and Send It Back are not really helpful. Dave
Interesting..... I was directed to this topic by the original poster, I guess because I try to help out when I can on the Bachmann forum. I only really look at the N scale section of their forum so I don't know what does on in the rest of it. For the most part, the responses from Bachmann are timely, but as mentioned, most of them are contact service, or check with parts. I know who the "Bach-man" is as I have met him at a few tradeshows. He is a nice gentleman and also heads all their shows and displays so he is a busy man and probably tires of, "this part fell off, how do I fix it?". I have seen him go out of his way to direct people to a certain person in the service department who has the knowlege to help them properly. He has checked on specs and come back with the answers so yes, when it is a real question, it does get answered. This may surprise many but Bachmann is not a technical company. Their idea of service is replacement. This honestly is a better solution for most of the new modelers/purchasers if you ask me. I work in a hobbyshop and see the class of customer that they are dealing with face to face. There are a growing number of people out there who can't even operate a screwdriver. These people would be completely lost with a real technical description on how to fix a product. If they are smart enough to want to fix the problem, then they are smart enough to visit other forums or their LHS. The forum is what it is. Nothing more or nothing less. I think many people expect it to be a full fledged technical breakdown and FAQ. Bachmann is not Microsoft. Total employees propbably number in the 20's. Most of these train companies are not large companies and don't have the staff to maintain a full function question / answer type tech service site. As far as the service department comments. I have only had one problem with them and it was very recent. We sent in an HO 3 truck shay for a customer that had cracked gears through out. I sent in a note that if the repair/replacement was not an option to please send the loco back in tact as the customer wanted it for a shelf display. A new to the job, over zealous customer service rep called me and said, "we have one left but I need to get some more info to complete the process". I had sent some other items in but forgot to include the receipts with them. I dug up the receipts, faxed them off, and talked to her again about the Shay. She said Climax this time and I asked her to make sure it was a Shay. She assured me all was good. When the box arrived, it indeed was a Climax, not a Shay. I called the customer explained, called Bachmann, and it was too late for the Shay. He did get a non running non DCC Shay replaced with a DCC/Sound Climax so it wasn't all bad in the end. Other than that, I have had custom painted stuff to send in, they say keep the shell, send in the mech and we will replace the mech. It has been done for me a couple times for customers at the shop. I have even had them swap road names for a customer that was in the middle of a layout change and when the loco failed, they replaced it with a road that was more appropriate for his new layout. All in all they have been very helpful. Just don't call in the weeks right after Christmas if you want any type of special treatment. It won't happen as they seem to be pulling their hair out around that time.
The original Bach-Man is a nice guy. The add-on Bach-Man I have dealt with...... As you say (and I said earlier), they are not "service" but "replacement". Costs a lot of money to do that I would imagine, to replace entire locomotives, and crush the returned unit, when gears would have fixed it. In non- N scale, never heard them say keep the shell. Some larger engines are more difficult....several years ago, there was discussion on taking the shell off an H0 steamer....and talking to the Bach Man on the phone, it seems they were designed NOT to come apart. Split gears is a big problem in several lines. Just put two or three NSWL gears in to one style engine in the last two weeks.
Is this Bachmann forum trustworthy? I didn’t know that you try to help out on the (N scale) Bachmann forum, and I sincerely applaud you for this. I think that you will find most of the newcomers (especially kids) in HO Scale. I personally have no problem with Bachmann’s approach to providing service for their products. But, I have a real problem with what I see as their presentation (or lack there off) of that approach to the public, and its effect on newcomers (especially kids). I believe that they are doing a great disservice to themselves and the train hobby. Is it not ironic that the first and only believable description (on the web) of their service approach appears on another site and another forum! My experience with Bachmann as a newcomer to the train hobby was one of the worst of my 68+ years, and I have been on the web since before it was publicly available. So far I count, 2 No’s and 1 Yes’s [N scale section only] from replies about experiences with this Bachmann forum.
There is a big misconception in this reply. Bachmann long ago decided it was cheaper to swap the mechanism than employ technicians capable of repairing loco's. A technician needs to be paid 40+ hours a week if he is repairing loco's or not. He has to have a level of skill above the basic phone answering customer service rep so he in turn earns more pay. My guess is the avearge spectrum loco might cost them $25-50 each to produce (whole sale cost of parts and labor). If it takes more than an hour to repair a loco and your are paying a tech $15 -$25 an hour, then you are already loosing money and its cheaper to swap it. In turn, send it in, a customer service rep looks at it and says "yup, its broke", boxes up a new one and in the mail it goes. Simple, fast turnaround, and cheap. The customer doesn't have to wait for 6 months while the tech gets caught up with the holiday backlog. The only time I have had to wait on anything was the original N 2-6-6-2 and that was because they had a revision to the mechanism coming after the first one had so many issues. They wouldn't send me another loco until the second revised batch had arrived and that took about 4 months. I have never had an issue with asking to swap or keep the shell from a loco being sent in. It's all in how you approach things I guess. Every loco will come apart, they even give you the exploded view in each to help find all the hidden screws to do it.
I will grant you that in Nano scale, keeping the shell is an option. I don't think you read that in my last. Some are not possible to remove the shells by the customer who often is too stupid to do so himself and resolder a broken wire. It hasn't been that long ago they used semi-skilled technicians. Note the word "semi". Maybe in N you have far better results...p[op off the shell, get a new mechanism. But, the question near as I can remember, did not narrowly define the answer to N scale. As I said earlier, some Half 0 engines, not so easy. 0n30, getting more difficult. I challenge you to do a Version 5 Large Scale 4-6-0 sometime, and see how that goes. Apart is one thing, together again is something totally different. Keeping the shells isn't an option. Parts and repair up until 3-4 years ago was the norm.....unless it required soldering a wire, changing a gear, or changing a handrail, then is seemed to get crushed.
Is this Bachmann forum trustworthy? I hope nobody will be offended if I refocus this discussion on the main question of the original post. Originally Posted by RT_Coker Is this Bachmann forum trustworthy? So far I count, 2 No’s and 1 [qualified to N scale only] Yes’s from replies about experiences with this Bachmann forum.
Similar case, COMPLETELY different experience. i bought one of the Bachmann Spectrum's CO George Washington sets. Ran great until I put a decoder in it, and then the lighing board went PFOOF! Called Bachmann, told then the problem. Got a service manager who told me "we knew about that, should have been a notification. The engines were wired backwards in the factory. (no one caught it because the stock Mountains ran fine, just the GW Mountains were affected) Must have missed that one. If you send it in, we'll get a new one for ya." "do you have any of the GW engines left, I'd really like to g keep it matching to the train." "no, but I'll tell you what, take the shells off with the detail, and send us the drives back with a letter, we'll get you a new engineand you can swap shells as you see fit." And so I did. And i wonder if those detailers had the chance to ask about that? Regarding the forum, its really not hard to tell who's a Bachmann rep. One says "admin" under his avy, and the other has a picture of the Big Guy . The last time I asked for soe advice, it really wasnt a question i couldnt ask here, and probably will if the engines start acting up again, so the forum wasnt a bad outlet, and i wasnt sure if the engines (bachmann) were the problem or the layout. For me, the worst part about thT site is that they've gotten so busy moderating th people off the Atlas site and answering "will you make this?" "can i get my enfine to go around a curve half its length?" "when ipcan i buy X product?" that they've forgotten the train stuff.
May have changed since I bailed, but "Admin" was office staff. Bach-Man and Director of Communications (hired out from some LGB related concern) used to share "Bach-Man" handles, and you used to be able to tell easily. I am so very happy you folks have such good luck with them. That you are willing to accept multiple failures, and that replacements are okay. That poor quality materials contributing to gear failure is acceptable. That locomotives wired backwards are one of those "gee, that's okay" moments. Long ago and far away, there was a skillset developed by folks in the hobby. When command control became available, people had to solder 2 wires to track pickups, 2 to motor, 2 to headlamp, 2 to backup lamp. I suppose rewiring a lighting board is out of the question now. Have to replace the locomotive. And, moderate they do.
Its not okay, I'm not saying its okay, but they issued a statement on a locomotive and four years after i bought one that slipped through the cracks, and theynwere willing to send me a cpmpletley working locomotive for half of one. For a song. I don't know how to replumb an engine. Decoders, sure. Soldering wires, getting better, but to backtrack everything through the plugs,mi'd rather not, thank you very much. Had enough fun getting the drivers re quarted after I pulled the cylinder heads out. . And you knowmwhT, the engine works. I'm aving gear mesh issues, but that's my fault, not theirs. How about that BLI engine of mine, that's now off warrant and I'm going to have to pay 45bucks to have them fix AGAIN a problem i sent it in for when it wason warranty, and a problem I don't know the solution to? Hiw about those Walthers sleds that i can't get to go around track after many wasted hours of filing, loosening and tightening screws, adjusting bolsters and couplers and contact screws and... If bachmann had a problem, they fixed it. That's not quite the same as rewiring a lamp through resistors so the DCC board doesn't blow it. Were I not six when it happened, maybe I would've tried to replace the sod axle drives on my Daylight. But i didn't care so much, because i made more memories with that engine. Still have it too. That being said, I CALLED them, i didn't go to the forum, which is the original point of this thread I'm truly sorry you've had such bad luck. In the present, I have two DCC gp7s that are almost flawless roster builders. I've had the plaesure of running a sound value 440 that's best described as swiss watch or top. I've got a 4449 model that ran breat until i pulled a wire out of its socket, but that's heppened to P2k and Genesis engines too. So can I hold that against Bachmann? The replacement Mountain for my Gw was a beautiful runner,and I actually hated pulling the shells off ifit for fear of buggering something. Someday I'll buy the drives and get itrunning again, but my priorities were elsewhere. My four, now 5 sharknoses are all geared to a different speed, but they havent refused a single task I've asked of them.
