Walthers turnout binding or sticking?

kwilliams@pga.com Jul 27, 2014

  1. kwilliams@pga.com

    kwilliams@pga.com TrainBoard Member

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    I'm wiring Tortoises on a layout under 2" foam board and have 10 of 12 wired with no problem. I have a couple of Walthers turnouts that are binding and need some recommendations. Anyone else ever had this problem? Is it just a matter of finding a stronger wire than the piano wire provided (I already bought longer wire). Looking forward to everyones suggestions.


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  2. ppuinn

    ppuinn Staff Member

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    Are you absolutely certain that the obstruction/binding in these 2 installations is within the turnout itself, and not in the 2 inch hole through the foam? Asked another way... Is the (1/4 inch?) hole through the 2 inches of foam completely free of particles of foam, so that, when the turnout and throwbar are NOT in place, the tip of the wire as it comes out of the hole moves smoothly from the left side of the hole to the right side when the wire below the Tortoise's pivot point moves from right side to left side?

    On my layout, most of my Tortoise actuator wires pass freely through 1 inch of deck thickness (1/2 inch of OSB panel plus 1/2 inch of Homasote) if I drill a burr-free 1/4 inch diameter hole. But, on some where the deck thickness was 1.5 inches thick, I had trouble getting the tip of longer wires to make a smooth, unobstructed movement from one side of the opening to the other, until I carved out a larger diameter hole. Even though I couldn't see any obstructions in the 1/4 inch diameter hole, drilling it larger produced better performance.
     
  3. kwilliams@pga.com

    kwilliams@pga.com TrainBoard Member

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    My thinking was exactly the same as yours, so the holes have already been made larger. The turnout is definitely binding without complication from the holes as proven when manually working the switch with my finger. The turnouts are a little tight and hang on their own and it can be felt with my finger. Next idea is to take them off the layout and investigate from the bottom of the turnout. Hope to find the problem, because the other 10 work great!
     
  4. ppuinn

    ppuinn Staff Member

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    1. On my turnouts (Atlas, N-scale, Code 80), the plastic throwbar that moves the points passes under the rail, between two plastic ties, and (on some ancient turnouts) over the plastic webbing that connects each tie to the next. I've had turnout points move freely prior to installation, but hang up after installation because the surface along the axis of the turnout was very subtly crowned (high in the middle) or otherwise uneven (diverging route twisted up or down from the straight route). Firmly securing the turnout with track nails through plastic ties at the 3 ends would introduce enough bend along the length of the TO that the throwbar would bind against the rails or ties.

    And, if the binding turnouts are near a grade, it is possible the vertical easement into the grade may extend under the turnouts far enough to cause the throwbars to bind (been there, done that). And I've inadvertently twisted turnouts enough to cause throwbar binding when I tried to change elevation too quickly from a mainline onto a siding.

    Tweaking the flatness of the subroadbed or roadbed under the turnout by sanding or using cardstock/thin cardboard shims usually eliminated any binding caused by subtly bent or twisted turnouts.

    2. Is the hole for the Tortoise actuation wire between the rails, or is it outside of the rails?...and, if outside the rails, do the throwbars of the binding TOs extend beyond the ends of the ties on both sides of the turnout, or just on one side? Most of my actuation wires come up through a hole outside of the rails. I've added turnouts in areas that were already ballasted and encountered problems when I cleaned up the surface on the side of the turnout where I drilled the actuation wire hole, but failed to adequately clean up the area where the throwbar extended beyond the ties on the OTHER side of the turnout. A few seconds chipping off ballast at the other end of the throwbar eliminated the binding.

    (Alternately, I could have elected the more cosmetically appealing option of cutting off the other end of the throwbar where it extended beyond the ties; but, since it is likely I [or whoever owns my turnouts after me] will reposition the turnouts on future layouts, that would limit placement of actuation wires or ground throws to only one side of the TO. For me, the convenience of mounting on either side of the TO in the future, outweighs any present appearance improvement resulting from cutting off the unused end of the throwbar...but others' preferences may vary.)

    3. Are your TOs secured in place with glue or have you ballasted your turnouts? Some of my throwbar problems went away when I actually lifted up an installed turnout and made sure there wasn't any glue or particles of ballast where there shouldn't have been. Also, sometimes the diluted white glue I used for holding grass, shrubbery, and underbrush near the throwbar, would wick under the throwbar and dry, but because it was so diluted, it wouldn't stick the throwbar in one spot...the thin layer of dried glue just provided enough resistance that the throwbar would hang up for the light pressure of a Tortoise wire, but not for the stronger pressure of a finger. I usually tried dissolving the dried glue first with water and a blast of air while leaving the turnout in place, but more often than not, I was only able to get rid of the dried glue by removing the TO from the layout and working on it at my workbench.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2014
  5. P50P

    P50P TrainBoard Member

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    Different thought, inspired by DaveH's mention of re-using TO's ...

    Have you tried swapping a working TO into the position of the sticking TO?

    ...manually operating the TO (since you mentioned it also binds with the Mark I Mod 0 Finger Actuator) on a flat, slick surface, like a clean kitchen counter, maybe with waxed paper to ensure no-stick?

    If the TO itself has a manufacturing problem, no amount of finagling is going to work!?!?!
     
  6. RGW

    RGW TrainBoard Member

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    Kw, Dave has a very good point, it may be that the throwbar is hung up by material under the turnout I would check that first. The other point he makes; glue, paint, other foreign material on top of the ties, May also be the problem. If your turnout hole is clear, the rod may not be sufficient to throw the points. I upgraded all the throw rods on my tortoises and they work flawlessly.

    Here is how we do it on my railroad:

    http://www.rgwrail.com/turnouts.htm

    Hope this helps, Michael
     
  7. kwilliams@pga.com

    kwilliams@pga.com TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks for all of the great feedback and input. After a great deal of fighting with it we called in a local expert who gave us some stronger music wire and everything is working well again. Definitely had some sort of uneveness under the turnout, but I didn't want to destroy all of our trackwork taking out one turnout, so the new wire was the quick and easy solution.


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  8. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Glad to read that you resolved it with a simple fix. :)
     

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