Double Crossover DS64 Tortoise One Button One LED

Hello,
I am trying to figure out how to set this up.
My goal is to use two channels on a DS64 to power four tortoise switch machines that will simultaneously all throw at once.

Short description of problem: How do I use a single momentary push button on my display panel to control two DS64 outputs?

Currently I have half of the equation working:
Right now, I have two tortoise switch machines hooked up to output 1 on the DS64 (R1 and G1). In line with the positive side of that (R1) I have a bipolar red and green LED (with protection resistor) that correctly lights up depending on which way the current is flowing. I have a momentary push button switch hooked up to S1 and Common on the DS64. When I push the button, it correctly throws both switch machines and the LED changes color. When I use the throttle and set it to Switch Address 1 and close it or throw it, the two switch machines move and the LED changes color. So far, so good.

Now how do I do four switch machines on two output channels with the one push button? I had two theories, but as I'm starting to hook this up, I think either it cannot be done, or I am missing something.
First idea: Make a Route. With a Route, you create a top address and I would assign switch address 1 and switch address 2 to the route. As I understand it, I would need to create two Routes. One for Closed and one for Thrown. So I guess that would be two top level routes with addresses 7 (closed) and 8 (thrown), but the actual switch addresses would remain 1 and 2. What I don't know how to do is set up the single momentary push button and single LED to actuate and indicate both routes.
Second idea: Assign the same address to two outputs. Rather than assigning output 1 to address 1 and output 2 to address 2, I would give them both an address of 1. That way when I use the throttle and change it to switch address 1, all four machines would change position when I issue a command to close or throw. Again, what I don't know how to do is set up the single momentary push button and single LED to actuate and indicate both outputs.

I would love to hear from the experts out there.

Thanks,
Hammers

 

I just had a third idea. The negative side of these momentary switches go to "common", so that's easy. But what if I take the positive side of the s1 and s2 inputs on the DS64 and put them both on one leg of the push button? This would basically be shorting out the positive side of s1 and s2 whether the button was "at rest" or being pushed. This might have bad or unknown consequences.
Further thought:
I guess to avoid shorting S1 and S2 inputs when the switch is "at rest", I could use a SPDT momentary switch like this:
https://www.radioshack.com/products/spdt-momentary-push-switch?variant=5717533701
instead of the SPST I am using:
http://tonystrains.com/product/mini...ry-push-button-switches-no-14-inch-33-025-02/

 

pretty sure you cannot set the same address to 2 different outputs.

one switch to 2 inputs makes sense, isolate the inputs from each other with diodes.

I'm not an expert on routes, but that makes sense...

Greg

 

Thanks guys. Looks like I have more testing to do. Rick, wiring two inputs to the same momentary switch. This means that, for example, s1 will be shorted to s2 all the time. Is there any danger with that? Or do I need to buy an SPDT momentary push button? Or is it DPST, I never keep them straight in my head. That way S1 and S2 are separate and then they both go to Common when the button is pushed. I'd have to buy that switch as I don't have one on hand.

 

You want separate poles. Look for "DP".

"ST", for single throw, refers to a simple on/off switch, which is what you want. "DT" refers to an on/on or an on/off/on switch, which won't do any harm (you don't have to connect anything to the other output), but is more complexity and expense than you need.

I don't think it matters, though. If you wire both poles to the same source, it's the same as having two wires come off of a single pole switch. Either you connect one source to two poles, or you have one source go through a single pole to two outputs. Same circuit either way, at least when the switch is closed. The double pole switch will isolate nothing. I don't know if this will cause the 'short' you're worried about. I wouldn't think wiring the same control wire to two channels would do any harm at all, but I don't know anything about the DS-64, so I also wouldn't trust my opinion. If it really is a problem, then you'd need to take Greg's advice and wire in a diode whether you use a single pole or a double pole switch.

 

Thanks for explaining the switch configurations. It makes sense in my head again.
I'll run a test tonight and see what happens (assuming the wife lets me free to tinker again and ignore the honeydo list another night). I was emailing Erik at Tony's trains about availability of a DPST momentary button and described the scenario. He said the SPST momentary button will work. So I guess there is no concern about wiring S1 and S2 together. Then there is just the matter of seeing if assigning output 1 and output 2 to the same switch address will achieve the desired outcome. I'll certainly share what I find out.

 

Hello, I did some testing this evening and I think I have a workable solution.
The momentary push button works when both the S1 and S2 are connected to one leg of the switch and Common for the other leg of the switch. Button actuates all four tortoise machines (2 on each of 2 DS64 outputs). The two tortoise machines that have the LED and protection resister definitely move slower and with less strength than the other two tortoise machines. But they all do move in unison. I used the same SPST switch, no problem.
As for programming the DS64, I found that programming both outputs on the DS64 to the same address did not work. When outputs 1 and 2 had the same address, only the tortoise machines on output 1 moved when I used the throttle to close or throw that address. This means that I have to use routes.
I played with a few route configurations and I found one that works, but I'm not sure why it works. It is counter to documentation.
I set up one route with both outputs set to closed and another route with both outputs set to thrown. I think the virtual address of the routes are the same as the switches. But, anyway, when I use the first address of the route and either close or throw, all four switch machines move in unison accordingly. No delay.
When I use the second address, only one pair of tortoise machines move. But, it works. You can see how I configured it in the screenshot below. As long as I use address 20 in the throttle, I can issue a close or throw and all four will move in unison. And the physical momentary push button works as desired. I think I am all set.
Screenshot was taken with Loconet-Checker. It made running my tests a lot easier as I could quickly work through several iterations and tested several configurations.

RouteConfig by SackOHammers posted Feb 17, 2016 at 7:08 PM

 

Glad you found something that works. And I think you're smart to wire them to work together. Simplifies your control panel and could save you a few derailments!