N Con Cor Turbine DCC conversion and CV settings.

308GTSi Apr 30, 2022

  1. 308GTSi

    308GTSi TrainBoard Member

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    I purchased a Turbine with a TCS Z2 decoder already installed. It ran like a hairy goat and when I checked the speed table it was odd looking. All the voltages were set very very low from start to maximum with only a slight upward incline. In addition to this the Forward Trim and Reverse Trim were both set to 128. I'm still quite new to setting up CV's but I'm thinking they shouldn't be set this high if at all.
    Sorry I don't have a screen shot of how they looked.

    One of the odd things the Z2 did was a very sudden jump in acceleration. On Wi-throttle going from 56 to 57 would about double the speed of the loco. On engine driver exactly the same thing happened , , a huge jump in speed.

    The Z2 installation was really rough and I wondered if something had been damaged. By rough I mean the orange and grey wires were set so as to make the loco run reverse. The body had then been forced on the shell backwards rather than swap direction electronically or simply swap the brush contact over. The bogie lead pilot was at the back and rear at the front.

    Soooooooooo , I tried a Lais decoder which I wired in exactly the same as the Z2 except for the orange and grey wires.
    I set set the decoder up as you would any other loco with a speed table going from low to high and 0 for forward trim and reverse trim. Once again the loco makes a huge increase in speed (nearly double) from throttle setting 36 to 37 this time.

    I do not have any headlights or reversing lights wired in for either decoder. The ends of the wires are not touching anything.

    I had recorded the loco as #61 in Decoder Pro when it had the Z2 installed. I then deleted #61 and set it up as a new loco again under the number #61 with the Lais decoder. Could some wildly incorrect setting from the Z2, other than the speed table, have copied across to the Lais decoder ?

    Could the motor in the Turbine not like DCC ??
     
  2. Mr. Trainiac

    Mr. Trainiac TrainBoard Member

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    I would remove the DCC decoder and test the locomotive on DC.

    The model should work decently in DCC. Even if the model isn't the most modern tooling, it still has a 5-pole motor. How is the model wired? Does the frame conduct power? I would try to test the load or current draw of the motor. Does the drivetrain turn freely? There could be a bind in the drive, and the motor is suddenly able to overcome it when you reach a certain speed step.

    Having a huge speed increase across one speed step is generally a decoder issue. I would perform a factory reset to start over at a clean slate. It sounds like the previous owner was changing random settings in an attempt to fix the issue. There may be other incorrect CVs in other areas like Back EMF or momentum that could be causing speed issues.
     
  3. woodone

    woodone TrainBoard Member

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    I do not see the reason to remove the decoder? Try setting CV 5 to a value of 50 and CV 6 to a value of 25.
    That would slow it down a bit, too slow increase the values in each one until you are happy. What ever you set CV 5 to set CV6 to about 1/2 the value of CV 5.
    The trim values you see means that they are at zero.
     
  4. Sumner

    Sumner TrainBoard Member

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    I've converted 3 of the U50's ( HERE ), which are the same as the turbines as far as I know except for the shell and they all run fine. I haven't run them much and put inexpensive Digitrax 123 decoders in them and at this point all have the stock settings except for the road number.

    I'd follow the advice from above and would maybe do a reset and then use a different road number. I know you deleted the number once but still wonder if somehow DecoderPro has but back in what was there for the previous one.

    Please let us know what the outcome is as I have more U50's and some Turbines to also put decoders in. I do have a couple ESU LokSounds that I bought and want to try them as they have the sound file for the two diesels the U50's have in them.

    Sumner
     
  5. 308GTSi

    308GTSi TrainBoard Member

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    I was actually a bit ahead of you there. When I got the loco home there was oil literally leaking out of it. I gave it one attempt on the PR4 test track, I now know that's not meant to move locos, and it wouldn't move. I decided it must have been dirty so started to clean it. I tried turning the reduction gears on the end of the motor shafts and they would barely turn. The oil that was everywhere definitely was NOT something nice and lite like Labelle 108. In fact it seemed more like an automotive gear oil ...... I ain't kidding !
    I can only guess a heavy oil was put in the drive train to quell the startling jump in acceleration caused by weird CV values which it had / has.
     
  6. 308GTSi

    308GTSi TrainBoard Member

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    I'll give it a go and I will report back about the end of the week. I will also try my Plan B , , I have a few U50's to convert so I will grab another Lais decoder + U50 and assign an SP number. No weird CV's should exist in that loco ,,,,,,,, or will they ??
     
  7. 308GTSi

    308GTSi TrainBoard Member

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    The turbine doesn't seem to need milling on the top of the chassis for the wires.
    One of the good things I saw on my turbine was the wires were routed along the top of the chassis with double sided tape and a little caption tape on top of the wires to prevent the body sticking to the tape.
    Just be careful not to use archival grade double sided tape. I've joined coins together with that stuff and had to resort to using acetone to get them apart. That tape came from Brodart if you're wondering. :)
     
    Sumner likes this.
  8. Sumner

    Sumner TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks, maybe the U50's don't need the milling on the top either. I'm so use to doing it that I don't check before hand if I need to do it :(. I'll try and remember this when I get around to the sound decoder installs and maybe all of my installs.

    I meant to include a link to the U50 installs but didn't so ( HERE ) it is and thanks for the tape info.

    For some reason the U50's are my favorite locos. I saw them and the Turbines when I delivered milk in Laramie, Wyoming and north of there where the highway paralleled UP's tracks. I also rented and lived in an old store building on first street with UP's mainline on the other side of the street. Looks like you like them also. Have you seen ......

    [​IMG]

    ..... James' Alco C-855's? If not ( HERE ) is a link to the build and you can order the shells and other parts on Shapeways. I hope to build them at some point along with his EMD DD35's.

    Sumner
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2022
  9. 308GTSi

    308GTSi TrainBoard Member

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    Aaahhhhh , the C855's , they're so ugly they are attractive. I have looked at the Shapeways printed parts but I'm still unsure about how smooth the flat panels are. I'm worried about details like carbody door hinges being lost in primer / paint.

    If you build some I'm sure everyone will want to see how they look.

    The U50 was always N scales brute force loco in the 70's, I had one then. The club I was in had N-Track and we went to a display and took up a quarter of the building with a track length of about 160 feet for each main line. We ran a train with 3 U50's and about 120 cars , it was amazing especially in the late 1970's.

    I've ended up with 4 U50's and 2 Turbines.

    I bought the Kato water tender 2 pack so I can model Turbine 61 when it had the 3 different types of fuel tenders being trialed. I also got the original Con-Cor turbine fuel tender but like the loco it needs some work. I have no idea where I will get the Super Turbine tender for 61 , , , would Scale Trains even sell spare tenders ?
     
  10. Sumner

    Sumner TrainBoard Member

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    I've seen them on their site in the past, not sure about now. I have two of the Kato sets of two, one lighted and the other not. You know more about them than I do. I have 3 of the Con-Cor's but haven't put decoders in any of them yet. I'm thinking about using one LokSound with their sound file.

    I wish I would of paid more attention to the diesels when I was in Laramie from late 60's to mid 70's. I just got into the hobby then and was mainly interested in steam. Then I got out of the hobby mid 70's to return about 4 years ago and now not interested in steam much.

    Sumner
     

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