Oh boy, I hope you guys can follow this diagram. I drew it up using my *basic* knowledge of how wiring works and the way I think it should be set up. I am not sure if it will work or not, and that is why I am posting it, looking for problems and suggestions. I am using one power pack to control 1 train, very simple. I should be able to have a couple locos working, though not at the same time, using block control. A- This is a polarity reversing switch for all of the tracks except the reverse loop. I will switch it when the train is within the reverse loop block. B- On/Off switches for the blocks D- Polarity reversing switch to make reverse loop same polarity as mainline for when train enters loop F&G- These push buttons should control the direction of turnout. One button for mainline, one button for siding. I intend to experiment heavily with this before I get it right. So far it's all been in my head and on the computer. The main reason for the buttons at points F&G (rather than using the atlas switch controller) is to give me a better looking control that I can incorporate into my control panel. I just don't know if this will work. talk to you guys later! Dave
Actually, looks like you got it right. I don't think you need two DPDTs though (I haven't worked with DC block control for a while), the single one on the reversing section should be fine. A comment about powering Atlas switch machines. These twin-coil type machines take a lot out of a Power Supply. If you throw a switch while a train is running you will notice a momentary decrease in the train's speed during the time the button is depressed. I recommend you run your switch machines off of a seperate power supply to alleviate this problem. Back when I had a small block control layout, I used a Tech II for my trains, and a regular trainset pack for my turnouts.
Everything looks good to me. Only 1 suggestions. #1 Make those SPST switches into SPDT or SP3T. That way if you decide to add an extra cab later on you can without having to rip out all of the old switches and replace them.
Looks good. One suggestion ... use one ON-OFF-ON momentary spring contact switch in place of the two pushbuttons you show for each turnout (F & G). This would save room on the panel ... might save money too. I've never used a reversing loop, but I believe you need a separate DPDT switch to reverse the loop since the train will leave the main in one direction, and re-enter the main in the opposite direction. I may be wrong on this ... Corey, or somebody, can you diagram a circuit that doesn't require a separate DPDT for the loop?
Thanks for the input guys I'm amazed that it seems to be relatively correct. I mean, it makes sense to me looking at the diagram, but I was just guessing on a lot of it. Last night I went and played around with some things, mainly the push buttons to control the atlas switcher. It worked just fine Corey- I think I might have an old power pack lying around that I can use to power the switches. Or maybe I can just go ahead and get a $25 one that I can use to control a second train. But then again, that train would have the momentary power loss when pressing switch buttons... hmmm, I'll have to weigh the disadvantages later Hank & Paul, I like both of your suggestions. I'll see what RadioShack has in stock and go from there. I'll post some pics of my control panel when it's finished. I think I might be able to get it together this weekend. Thanks again- Dave
One other suggestion ... I have read that a capacitor discharge circuit can be inserted between the power supply output and the turnout "pushbuttons" to provide a surge of power to the switch machines without dropping the train circuit voltage. I don't have any experience with this, just what I read. I don't even know where you would find a circuit diagram. However, I'm sure that one of the other TB members probably knows. [ 22. November 2002, 14:47: Message edited by: Hank Coolidge ]
daveheinzel333, switches from radio shack are ging to be VERY expensive even if you're just planning to buy a few. I suggest you do a search for surplus electronics or go to one of my favorite sitres http://www.allelectronics.com and http://www.goldmine-elec.com You should be able to pick up switches for about a dollar each. Th onlt thing is try and get enough at one time for any future expansions as otherwise you may not be able to find a matching switch when you need it.
I strongly suggest you use a capacitor discharge unit for your switch machines. This will not only give a big punch of power to ensure the switch is fully thrown, but will also stop the possible burn-out of the coils, as the capacitor will not recharge until the button (or switch) is released. I use the center-biased SPDT switches to control the switch machines. Photo of my CP discharge unit, quite cheap to buy.
Here's a schematic of a capacitor discharge system if you would like to build one from scratch yourself. I built one and it works just dandy [ 22. November 2002, 21:25: Message edited by: Colonel ]
Dave Couple of observations here. Power your switch machines from a seperate power source. No matter how you try to do it, if you power your switch machines from the same power pack you are running trains with, you will lose track power when you put power to a switch motor. An old toy train power pack works well. I think most model railroaders have at least a couple of these. You can get them at swap meets for $1-5 each. Doesn't matter if the speed control reostat works, all you want is the fixed 12 volt DC power anyway. I will ask if you have if you have to use electrical power to throw switch machines. I only use powered switch machines on switches that are hard to reach or hidden. I try to use hand thrown switches whenever and where ever I can. There are plenty of other non-powered ways to throw switches. I have found a company the makes a miniature Armstrong Mechanical Turnout Control lever system that looks a lot like the real lever system used in interlocking towers. This is for HO or N. See www.humpyard.com for details. I use a similar homemade system for throwing switches on my layout , but I like the look of the miniature lever systems. Use a Capacitor Discharge unit to throw your powered switch machines as Hank said, the CD units make those twin coil machines throw every time. You can use the CD units to throw several switches at the same time also. It is possible to design a route system with a CD unit so that you can flip one control swiitch and line up a whole route through a yard or such. Go get the KALMBACH PUBLISHING books about model railroad wiring by PETER THORNE. I think there were at least two volumes, maybe three. These books will answer most of the questions you have about layout wiring, will provide wiring diagrams for building your own CD units and give you a good overall picture on how to wire up a layout.
Dave, I agree with the comment about Radio Shack! Try to find a local electronics supply store that the amateur radio operators (Hams) in your area use. Hams are more tight fisted than model railroaders. Hams could also help you with any problems you might have, such as building a CD circuit for your switch machines.
Well, this weekend I got it all done. I really wanted to take everybody's advice and do it the best and cheapest way that I could, but in reality, I knew that this weekend if I didn't make substantial progress, it would be well into December before I get to spend this much time on it. So I made some compromises that can easily be corrected later. I looked around for switches online, and allelectronics.com, recommended by Paul, seemed to have the best deals/selection. But I didn't want to wait for delivery, so I went to trusty RadioShack. I don't know if I led anyone to believe otherwise, but I have a very simple layout, so I didn't need too many switches. If I did, it would have been much more costly. With what few switches I already had, I only spent $18 at RadioShack for the remaining switches and buttons. I plan on adding a small power pack to power the switches, but for now, it's hooked up to my main power pack. I left room on my control panel to add another small power pack. I also will try to use a capacitor discharge unit for them, but so far I have not tried to do so. One question about those- do you need one for each switch, or could you just use one on the feed from the AC? I wired everything exactly how it appears in the diagram at the top of this post, and once I got everything hooked up, it all worked perfectly the first time! I was so surprised. No loose connections, no crossed wires, nothing. After I tested it I soldered the wires to the switches. Anyway, here's some pics: Here's the pre-wiring back on my control panel. Here's the crowded corner of my CP. I found a key-in-lock switch that I just HAD to use as a master on/off. Here's my control table thing. The power pack is not connected, but it's rubbery non-slip feet keep it in place while I use it. The best decision I made was to hinge my control panel for easy access. I know it looks like a nightmare, but I've got the wires labeled fairly well, and I've got them tied up enough so that they don't dangle down under the table (those two white ones dangling have yet to be hooked up). So thanks for the advice everyone, and don't think I will stop here. I just had to do this much this weekend while I could. I'll let you know about the CDU and extra power pack as soon as I'm able to add them. I do notice the drop in track voltage when the switch is thrown, although it's not too bad. Hardly noticable when I press the button very quickly
Dave, you only need one CD unit to feed all the switch machines. I assume you will only be activating one machine at a time so the capacitor will be able to re-charge before you activate the next machine.
Hank, my crossovers throw both turnouts at the same time, would the capacitor handle them too? I have never had capacitors and stuff so far, what advantage are they?
A capacitor discharge unit can fire several turnout motors at the same time (at least mine does). The 16V AC input is turned into something like 40V to power the motors, so it is easily adequate for two at a time.
Wait unitil you see inside my control panel. It looks like a bowl of spegetti.. I am going to pick up a cheap camara tomorrow and start taking pictures of how far I am on my layout.
Wayne, as Alan indicated, I doubt if you would have any problem firing two machines simultaneously from a single CD unit. I'm sure that I could contact the manufacturer to determine how much energy a given set of capacitors is capable of storing, and I could find out how much energy your power supply's 16VAC side is capable of supplying, and I could research how much energy your switch machines require to trip over. Then I could calculate the amount of energy expended by the total operating cycle, the amount of time lost to firing the circuit, and the amount of time needed to recharge the circuit. However, I doubt if anyone of us, including thee and me, really give a "Rodent's Behind" as to the data that might result from my effort as long as the darn circuit works every time ... !
Cap's can hold a lot of charge. Consider that in a power supply the cap has to provide all the current (many amps) for the system 120 times a second when the ac voltage oges to zero and do so without any significant drop in the output voltage. Consider that in the case of the capacitive discharge circuit you can drain the entire cap if you want. How fast the capacitive dischare circuit can refresh itself depends on the rectifier diodes used. most rectifier diodes can handle surges of at least 30A so it's really not a problem. So in summary the capacative discharge circuit should be able to throw quite a few turnouts. If it can't handle it then just add another in parallel.
