DRGW Old Rio Grande

r_i_straw Aug 17, 2023

  1. mmi16

    mmi16 TrainBoard Member

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    Especially after December 7, 1941
     
  2. HemiAdda2d

    HemiAdda2d Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    OK, so I'm back now and can reference my books.
    My eyes need to be checked, but that number sure looks to be 5481; I will explain further below. The first D&RGW FTs were delivered to the 'Grande in Jan 1942, numbers 540, 541, 542. Each unit was a 4-unit ABBA set and cost almost exactly $500,000. The lead unit of the set would hold only numbers in the boxes, with trailing units in the set assigned "A", "B" or "C" as appropriate. When that became confusing, in 1944 the units were supplemented with "first 1/4", second 1/4" and so on stenciled on the flanks. The units had small classification lights in the nose and the nose numberboards were installed almost on the side of the nose, not angled as in the photo you see. Among other as-delivered differences, they were semi-permanently drawbar connected (receiving knuckle couplers in 1943), the DB box had a rounded side, unlike the boxy version later installed. Steam generators in B-units were only installed in #548-550 as-delivered. The lights on the nose had chrome rings and no cab windshield grab irons. Rear ladders were provided for switchmen. They remained mostly unchanged until 1946 when they received a more visible yellow nose treatment (4-stripe Aspen Gold and black arrived in 1951), cab radios and the familiar angled/boxy numberboards were added. In 1950, the familiar 4-digit unit numbers were assigned. Set 540 became 5401, 5402, 5403 and 5404 individually--boosters carried 2 and 3 suffixes while cabs held 1 and 4. This means in the covered wagon era, no D&RGW units carried -5,6,7,8 or 9 suffix numbers!

    The 5481 is a unique beast. Wrecked at Gore, CO in December 1950, it was returned to LaGrange for repair and emerged as the first unit in the new 4-stripe scheme and silver trucks, also sporting the then-current F7 body, hence the "upgraded" look. Electrically it was an FT, however, and only in later years did it get upgraded to 1500 HP, but I cannot determine a date on when. Other FTs that received upgraded 567 engines retained their 1350 HP rating. EMD supplied F7 noses to 5411, 5421 and 5424, and 5481-5484 were built to F7 specs for passenger service on the Royal Gorge.

    Sure was brilliant, but short lived!
    This is just east of east Plain and west of Tunnel 1.

     
  3. r_i_straw

    r_i_straw Mostly N Scale Staff Member

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    I sort of questioned the information given with the images. However I looked up Plainview on Google Maps and it is way out east of Colorado Springs literally on the plains. No mountains, cuts, ravines or rail lines that I could see. I though maybe I missed something but your explanation makes a whole lot more sense.

    Just giving the information published with the image on the FTs. A lot of misinformation out there.
     
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  4. Doug Gosha

    Doug Gosha TrainBoard Member

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    Ah, back when, out west, trains were trains and men were...well...wondering, "How the heck are we gonna get them over the mountains?!

    :D

    Doug
     
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  5. r_i_straw

    r_i_straw Mostly N Scale Staff Member

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    Ten Wheeler number 779 pulling four cars upstream along the Arkansas River in about 1910.

    D2407CD2-6BD5-4819-9AF5-48028F42562A_1_105_c.jpeg
    An open air observation car modified from a standard car having an ornate grill pauses for ten minutes at "Hanging Bridge" along the Arkansas in the Royal Gorge so the passengers can enjoy the view. Rio Grande Railroad photos. EEDC0415-5CED-41DD-B081-3BAAF8DB5CE3_1_105_c.jpeg
     
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  6. DeaconKC

    DeaconKC TrainBoard Member

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    That was my thought too!
     
  7. HemiAdda2d

    HemiAdda2d Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    That 779 shot is great! I think the date is likely off; block signals were only installed from Minturn over Tennessee Pass to Salida in 1928, and from Salida to Pueblo from 1929-1937. Still, the view is excellent, ringed with 12,000-foot peaks. There's no milepost on the signal masts, so it might be immediately following their installation. I don't recognize the location, but that doesn't mean much...
     
  8. HemiAdda2d

    HemiAdda2d Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    I'd love to post this larger, but it only is available in small sizes... What's cool about this image is an as-delivered F3, with the additional yellow nose treatment, in its original number (renumbered to 5521 in 1950), and helped by two L-131-class 2-8-8-2s! Not only is the engine less than a year old, it's the same one to become famous in a quartet of F3s that replaced the beautiful but temperamental Alco PA-1s that pulled the Silver Lady--the California Zephyr--for many years until its retirement in a July 25, 1965 wreck at Pactolus, CO just west of Pinecliffe. The beyond-repair hulks became trade-in credit for the Rio Grande's first 4-axle hot rods--the GP40s.

    Welcome to Mitchell, CO! What's notable here is the second main track. The second main track reached from east of Mitchell (nearly to the summit tunnel) to Minturn, except a short segment of single track near Deen Tunnel. CTC was installed on the west slope from summit to Deen Tunnel in 1928, as well as automatic block signaling from Minturn to Salida. Necessary for light helper movements in the steam days, the second main track was cut back to long sidings at Rex, Belden, Pando & Mitchell in 1958 with the advent of full dieselization and additional CTC. Ten years later, the Rex and Mitchell sidings were pulled up entirely and the roadbed became a railroad service path.

    Denver and Rio Grande Western Railway Company (D&RGW) diesel 552 on 2-36 about 1 ½ miles below summit of Tennessee Pass CO, helpers 3613 & 3603, 60 cars, 10 MPH, 11:45 am, 1/400th f8.
    Ralph Hallock; Tennessee Pass Oct 1947

    p15330coll22_92552_medium.jpg
     
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  9. r_i_straw

    r_i_straw Mostly N Scale Staff Member

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    I think that 1910 date should apply to the photo of the hanging bridge only. Thanks for nailing down the date on the 779 better.(y)
     
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  10. Point353

    Point353 TrainBoard Member

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  11. Point353

    Point353 TrainBoard Member

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  12. HemiAdda2d

    HemiAdda2d Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    OOH, OOH, pick me!!!
    Tunnel 2 west portal, post opening of Dotsero Cutoff in 1934, before 1936. Notice the twin compounds are rather smallish 3300-3400 class engines and both have auxiliary water tenders. The monstrous L-131s of the 3600 class would destroy the light track structure. No engines larger than 3400-class were allowed on the Moffat Tunnel route until after 1936 when a large rebuilding campaign upgraded the route to handle the biggest motive power.
    This is a RARE image. John Maxwell image, 5 July 1941; eastbound train 6, Exposition Flyer. (predecessor to the California Zephyr) Tunnel 26 is behind the photographer, Tunnel 27 is visible behind the train. Also visible are the intermediate signals at MP 35.3. Color version of this image in Conway's Heart of the Rockies.

     
  13. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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    I was thinking the same thing in regard to the date. The teens saw a lot of experimentation and advancement in lamp and colored glass technology, and some pioneering installs. The MILW's Pacific Coast Extension saw one of the first large scale installations of colored light signals in 1915 and it wasn't until the 20s that the technology was accepted to wider use. No milepost on a signal usually indicates an Absolute signal, i.e. a "stop and stay". These are superb pictures.
     
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  14. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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    I was thinking the same thing Glenn. I'm really enjoying these shots. (y)
     
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  15. HemiAdda2d

    HemiAdda2d Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Let's go back to 1946! Otto Perry was on hand to record eastbound light helper engine 3560 at Tunnel 29 on November 14th.
    First for the engine:
    D&RGW initially bought a pair of ALCO/N&W 1916-built Norfolk & Western compound-expansion 2-6-6-2s for coal runs out of Helper, UT in 1942. Wartime shortages meant diesels were not always available, and power-strapped D&RGW took the next best option. The N&W engines were bigger than the D&RGW's earlier Mallets and received 3350-3351 for numbers. In 1945, D&RGW sought more power to keep the heavy wartime tonnage moving, and again turned to N&W for more compounds, this time eight Baldwin or N&W-built 2-8-8-2s that received 3550-3557. The 2-8-8-2 N&W engines were a very close facsimile of the D&RGW 3500 in many respects, generated 109,000 lbs of tractive effort, and Rio Grande added auxiliary water tenders that enabled them to bypass the water stop at Cliff, CO, on the teeth of the 2% grade. They and their later 1918-1924-built sisters were in mainline helper service. Also in 1945, D&RGW bought an additional seven similar ex-N&W 2-8-8-2s, numbering them 3558-3564. When war traffic diminished, all but 2 were retired in 1947, and the last pair soldiered on until 1950.
    This engine looks to be modified with Moffat service smoke lifter apparatus on the smoke stack.

    Tunnel 29 is 78 feet long, and once featured 39 feet of timbering, as can be seen here. In 1953, sprayed gunite (concrete) and rock bolts stabilized the tunnel and flanks, and the timbering was removed.

    https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/49042/rec/466

    OP 3560 1946.jpg
     
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  16. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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    So cool, I had no idea the D&RGW operated N&W power. I though the AT&SF was the only western road to do so.
     
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  17. HemiAdda2d

    HemiAdda2d Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Ralph Hallock was on hand to capture the Exposition Flyer at Tunnel 10 in 1947, before the Silver Lady was inaugurated.
    A few things of note here:
    Look at the intermediates near the site of old Tunnel 9. Today, they are nearly to Tunnel 10's east portal. I don't know if a rock slide led to their moving west or not, but perhaps this site after cutting the mountain back was still a problematic site. Today, the site of Old Tunnel 9 is hemmed in by an intricate array of rockslide detector fences.

    The flat spot here wasn't ever planned, but a result of daylighting Old Tunnel 9.
    Follow the pole line over the hill, it marks where Tunnel 9 was planned to be bored, but unstable rock led it to be abandoned in construction in 1903. A tight kink in the mainline here can be traced along the flank of the flat spot to the leftmost cut beyond the outfit cars. The kink was so tight it led to a permanent 5 MPH slow order here. A similar one existed, and for the same length of time, at Old Tunnel 17, several miles west. The tight kink around the spur of the mountain remained from construction for 35 years until 1938 when the hill was cut back, Tunnel 9 daylighted, the curve eased and the excavated rock used to fill in timber trestles along the route to become fills. The amount of outfit cars here might indicate construction of some sort, or perhaps maintenance to keep the troublesome mountain off the tracks.

    Additionally, Crags Hotel was located several hundred feet in elevation down the flank of the mountain into Rattlesnake Gulch. DNW&P/D&SL also had a flag stop and spur here to serve the hotel. The site of Crags Hotel, burned decades ago, can be reached by Rattlesnake Gulch Trail, from Eldorado Canyon State Park. The trail is 2.2 miles, and climbs and descends to gain 1200 feet of elevation where it terminates at Tunnel 10's east portal.

    The tracks can be seen from near the hotel site, and offers a view from below Tunnel 8:
    [​IMG]

    This sign marks the site of the hotel:
    [​IMG]

    From nearly the same vantage point, and this wasn't planned, we see a westbound UP manifest passing the site of Old Tunnel 9:
    [​IMG]

    A good view of the slide fences now here:
    [​IMG]

    "Denver and Rio Grande Western Railway Company (D&RGW) PA 601 on #5 at tunnel 10 near Scenic CO, 12 cars, 25 MPH, 3:25 pm, 1/300th, f11"

    https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/92513/rec/1079

    Hallock 1947 601.jpg
     
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  18. Point353

    Point353 TrainBoard Member

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  19. HemiAdda2d

    HemiAdda2d Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Impossible to tell, but is likely NOT the 601 due to the build date of April 1947. I tried blowing it up, and based on the date, May 18, 1947, could be either 600 A or C.
    Excellent catch!
     
  20. HemiAdda2d

    HemiAdda2d Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/92658/rec/1482

    Before anyone comments this is not D&RGW, look a tad closer… (like zoom way in)

    We are at MP 22.97 on the Moffat. Why UP locos, you ask? Look at what Ralph Hallock noted when he captured this fine Feb 19, 1949 image:

    “Union Pacific train with engine 603, engine type American Locomotive Company (Alco) FA

    Union Pacific Railroad Company (UP) diesel on a detouring freight at Coal Creek tank. Diesel 16034, helper Denver and Rio Grande Western Railway Company (D&RGW) 1702, 60 cars.

    UP storm detours on the D&RGW.”

    That says it all! A UP line was blocked due to a storm, likely a blizzard blocked the Wyoming mainline. This train must be high priority, so UP is detouring over the Moffat to get livestock and perishables west. Look at the locos: Alco FAs in an ABBA configuration, brand new after 1948. On the headpin are stock cars, the trailing trio are double-deckers based on the straw peeking thru the side slats. Trailing the stock cars is an ice refrigerator car. The rest of the consist is out of frame, so that’s all we can surmise other than a 60-car train and D&RGW 1702, an M-64 4-8-4 class steam engine which will certainly stop for water at the Coal Creek tank in the image. That engine was scrapped in 1954. The FA leader was traded to EMD in Feb 1965, perhaps as trade credit for new DD-35 units. The rest of the FAs in the train didn’t last beyond 1965 before retirement. https://utahrails.net/up-diesel-roster/up-diesel-roster-24.php#fa-1-1600

    More notable items: the Coal Creek tank still in place, and the Denver & Salt Lake-standard phone booth bears the milepost, and the relatively new General Railway Signal Co SA-type searchlight block signals are gleaming and clean. Being away from home and my library, I don’t have a date when the Moffat was signaled (for shame!! :p ). Look how heavily clocked the upper signals on both sides of the track are with regards to the train! Also near the signals is a motor car setout. At the tail of the lead unit is the milepost, mostly consistent with the D&RGW’s Standard Plans. The lightest gauge rail available was to be welded to the 10-gauge sheet metal, and bent 45 degrees on both sides, painted white and 4” numerals applied. The post seems smaller than even the lightest gauge rail—perhaps a steel pipe or flanged channel steel post. On the same post is section sign. It shows the divisionpoint between the Fireclay and Plain sections. A final detail is the stenciled and painted Rio Grande logo on the Coal Creek overpass.

    Colorado Route 72 still climbs into the Front Range here, but almost all of this is gone, or replaced with character-less UP-standard signals and signage. I lack a single image from this view, having concentrated efforts on obtaining far more difficult to access views west of here.

    1949 hallock coal creek.jpg
     

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