I have edited the post to change it to a link. Photos should not be posted to the site unless permission has been given by the owner. Charlie
Thanks but I still think that this whole bloody thing about lawyers and pictures is kind of stupid. I always thought that whatever's posted on the net is free, besides we're ending up with such outragous rules just like the Taliban. At this one guys site he didn't mind me copying his pictures, I later showed him what I did to his pictures and he loved them so much he's posting them on his site. And all that without permission! See some people can really be nice and others can just be jerks and want money. Sorry to say it but its true and a fact! If the internet started out free of charge then some things on the net should be free as well, I'll boycott the whole net if I have to.
Well, see, there's your mistake. If everything posted on the net was free who would be paying the bills? Charlie
Well Charlie, thats very interesting, but you see I DO pay the bills to have the internet. Meaning that some of the money will go to taxes and then become Income Tax. So it's not a mistake its a way of paying for somthing which I DO have rights to do.
You're showing your ignorance, "bigboy". You need to learn the difference between freedom and anarchy. Just because the Internet allows freedom does not mean you get to do whatever you want. Charlie is trying to give you a bit of advice- smarting off at him isn't a smart move. But hey, if you want to get booted off by smarting off to the administrators, feel free......it's your right, after all. You won't be the first, nor the last.
hey bigboy why do you have the up bigboy as your name and casey jones signature? didn't he fire on the illinois central? oh and by the way take the advice given and just call it a loss on your part.
Hey guys, thanx for helpin but I have as much right as the next guy. Here's something I said to someone who emailed me: "Thanx (name will remain anonymous), I could always count on your advise, suggestions and might I add, wisdom! I mean once I pay for the net I pay for whatever's on it each month and these stupid rules and copywritted pictures and material should be free cause I do pay for it when Compuserve gets their money. And here's something these genuis's (if not all) don't exactly display or say on their sites, like "These pictures or materials are copyrighted". Something that simple would result in nothing being displayed on any other site(s) cause of the copyrighted material. So it's not exactly my fault that something like that could get me or anyone into trouble." What I say is the truth, and it shall be free. Those who have a site or own one should display on the bottom of their pages or website that the materials on them are copyrighted and protected. I can take a risk but if a site doesnt say it's copyrighted its free for the taking! Sorry but facts are facts and thats all I can come up with.
And I'm not being or showing ignorance, I'm just producing the facts. If you can't stand the facts then I'm not the ignorant one. Whoever said I was ignorant in the first place?
Charlie is just one of many administraitors who could and probably boot me off, it's up to ALL the administraitors to make that choice whether or not I should remain on here.
I'm saying your wrong as well as the rest BigBoy. You pay the bill for internet access. NOT personal pictures that are owned by someone else. All the money that you pay for your Internet access is to that company to let you visit sites and seach the web. Once you take something copyrighted or not its steeling anyway you look at it.... Your not paying the internet access bill to take things from sites.. your paying that bill to be able to view whats in those sites! If the cost you pay for the internet acess was for all these things in sites that you download or take.... All I'm going to say is. I sure doubt that you'd be able to afford that cost! Because you would have to pay for everything separately, at whatever the owner would set the cost to, plus the cost of the access to just be online. I've dealt in patents rights and copy rights over alot of things with my shop and with personal PICTURES that I've found online that solely belonged to my grandfather... Guess who won? Thats right I DID! They were willed to me and the rights were signed over to me by my grandfather exactly one year before he passed on. Someone had gotten the same pictures after they were willed to me and the copyrights were signed over to me before I had them in my possesion and had put them online WITHOUT MY CONSENT. And for you to better understand the whole copyright thing, I'll explain that as well.... Their were, (I don't know if their still are) sites that would ask for pictures, if you had gave any of them you then instantly lost the rights to them, And if you got caught selling them or passing them out you could have been charged with theft and another charge thats has to do with the rights and crossing them. Well hows that possible you ask? The site has an "Agreement Policy" that most people won't even read that states this. And its as legal as can be. You'll get burnt from it. Then on another account I seen where their was a site that would do picture searches, if they thought that the site they had could use the picture they'd take it without any consent to and put it on their site, and charge people to view their site.. EVEN the pictures rightfull owner would have to pay to see his own picture(s) and don't even know that his pictures were stolen and put into a site thats making money from them. Once pictures are on the internet and they were copyrighted, this all stoped. So... Say you put up pictures online, and someone took them, and you didn't have them copyrighted. Well the fellow or whoever that took them is now making MONEY off YOUR pictures. How would you feel? When you snaped the button that took that picture! You done all the work it took to get that picture but then you put it online for decent people to see it and your work, then one idiot comes along takes your work and hes making big money from it..... You tell us how you would feel, being you did all the work to get that picture or pictures! With that picture having a copyright on it printed, they cannot steel it and take credit for taking the picture with their own camera, and sure CAN NOT MAKE MONEY OFF SOMEONE ELSES WORK! Sure though, none of the pictures I have taken myself, and put online are copyrighted NOT A ONE! But let someone do what the copyrighting is all about with my pictures. Sadly I'll know it right off the bat! The pictures I have online are of my own personal work. I'll know my trains on any web site wether or not the picture was "Computer Customized" I'll still know my own work when I see it. And the nice part is.. You don't find a Western Maryland "HO" scale Challenger everyday, or even a B&O "HO" scale EM-1 Yellowstone! Those 2 locomotive will be very apparent to anyone thats seen them already..... But somewhere else... They'll know who done the work to make those loco's and also who those loco's belong to.... As you see, the whole deal is from someone taking a picture and saying "they took it" and is making money off of it, but in reality, it was taken by someone else, and the person that stole it is making money from it that rightfully belongs to the guy that pushed the button on his camera! I can't say I blame guys for copyrighting their own pictures! I won't want someone making money off a picture I did all the work to get! And sure, I take pictures! I print them as well.. FOR MY OWN PERSONAL USE! I use them as modeling guides, And who ever the picture belongs too. I make it noted that the picture belongs to whoever. I take the credit on the actual work to the model.. Not the picture. And when I get orders to do this or that, and used someone elses picture to do the customization. I let it be know that without the picture my modeling skills preformed on that preticular model wouldn't have been possible, and thank the orginal owner for letting me use the picture... [ 16 January 2002: Message edited by: 7600EM_1 ]
Yes, I agree that the use of lawyers for fickle issues is stupid, but you do live in the land of litigation and so need to live with the fact that if you do something wrong you may get sued. Keeping in mind the above, and adding to John's extensive missive, anything posted on the net is not free. All content is copyright of the author and/or creator, whether it is an article, picture, whatever. Nothing is free. You may ask to use the object for personal use and be allowed to do so, or by licence agreement if for profit, if the owner agrees. I have personally been involved with an issue of an image I modifed for an acquaintance who subsequently placed it on the net without my knowledge or permission and was approached over it by the original creator. I was unceremoniously thrown to the lions over it (don't talk to me, I didn't do it - he did) and needed to smooth over the waters before it got out of hand. It came to a friendly conclusion simply by asking permission and adding the requested copyright information to the image involved. This is an example of what can happen. The example you give - "at this one guys site he didn't mind me copying his pictures" - tells me he has given permission for you to do so without expressly saying so. His inaction over you taking and reposting the image/s can be construed as tacit permission. But don't think that permission could not be reversed at any time since no written, or express, permission was granted in the first place. Oh, the internet has never been free of charge. Only those in the right places (government, educational and scientific institutions for the most part) had access in the early days and that was paid indirectly by provision of equipment, etc. Personally, you pay an access fee to your ISP to allow you access to the network, your ISP pays for bandwidth and data transfer to a bigger provider, and so on and so forth. That does not give you the absolute right to take what resource you feel is free to take. It only allows you access to that resource. Using another of your examples, Compuserve doesn't pay me for what you consider rightfully take from my site. Nobody does, let alone you. So, 'spitting your dummy' over this matter and boycotting the 'net is cutting your nose off to spite your face. It's an arrogant, and ignorant, action that will do nothing but inconvenience yourself. I hope this and the previous posts outline life on the 'net as we know it. Rights are an oft quoted, but misunderstood, defence for those who don't know better. Gary. (one of this site's administrators with a choice)
I agree. I know and went through an ordeal with some guy that got MY pictures before they were in my hands, I had already had the copyright transfered to me, from my grandfather and well this fellow put these train pictures, online and was charging to view my pictures! Making money off something that at the time solely belonged to me and it was a nasty issue. It was sad too, I left it go and as long as he deleted what he had and their was proof of this I was ok with that. But Once I steped down the people that had information on it being copyrighted took over and they press charges! I had no say in it whats so ever! And sadly, over all that I would not doubt that my grandfather had rolled over in his grave from such ignorance. In this world today BigBoy, your going to learn. Nothing I mean nothing is free. Someone somewhere had to pay for it.. And as goes for internet access.... You pay for the access alone. Not the content in it or content that seems "free" If it had a copy right on it a law suit could be headed your way when you least expect it! All from "ignorance" of the law. Laws of copyright, and patient. As the old saying goes in the middle of getting stoped for a speeding ticket, "But officer, I didn't see the speed limit sign, doing 65 in a 45, Sorry Charlie (no offense Charlie) But thats ignornace of the law.... Here its just enlarged to other laws... And other conditions....And the sadest point of this is the fact that you (as in anyone) can be fined for ignorance of the law! And as this is on my mind, a member of trainboard here, Watash was given a picture in a Christmas card... From myself. And if he may wonder, and like, you may scan that picture if you like. I don't see any harm in doing so and also for viewing reasons.... All I ask is I'm given credit for the actual picture.... I have the "righted" picture of the same one in 8X10 size that is the original copyrighted picture.... The 5X7 picture is a picture made from the negatives. So Watash ole buddy, you can scan that and post it on trainboard and all. And add it to your collection of pictures! [ 16 January 2002: Message edited by: 7600EM_1 ]
No one is calling you "ignorant" as an insult but your logic is very flawed - regardless of how strongly you believe it. You really need to listen to the friendly people here who have obviously committed substantial time to typing out explanations to you. Intellectual property may not legally be taken without permission - whether it's in a book or on a web site. When you buy a book you are not buying the right to scan the photos and display them. When the photographer comes to your school to take your picture for the yearbook and your parents, you pay for the photos. But, take that down to Wal-Mart to the photo scanner and ask them if you can scan it. You will find out that the photographer maintains a copyright on the picture of you and you can't copy it even though you paid for it. Just because someone told you that the Internet was a copyright free-for-all does not make it true. You're what, 13 or 14 years old? How could you possibly know more than my attorney about this? You're a student and he's been practicing law for over 35 years and you want me to believe that you have somehow amassed knowledge on this that my attorney (and every other adult on this site) has missed? If I were you I would bail out of this debate while you can. No one is against you personally or trying to insult you but this would be one of those times that you should be listening to other people instead of telling us that we don't know what we're talking about. Having said that, there are certainly times that a photo or image from a site can be displayed. Often times a small photo from a newspaper could be displayed along with a link to the story and usually the newspaper would not mind because you are leading traffic to their site. There are a lot of times that the rules are very flexible and that is good. But, when you just post a large photo, obviously professionally taken, and do not give credit - that is not good. Also, the bandwidth used to transfer the photo to every user who clicks on the thread is property of the other web site. If you have permission and they don't mind - no problem. I don't see that as being the case here though. Posting a link to the page where the picture is is a good thing to do. It drives traffic to the site where the picture is hosted (they like that) and everyone still gets to see the photo. Just because someone fails to post copyright wording does not mean that you can violate copyright laws. Do you think that stealing from the grocery store is allowed as long as there isn't a "no stealing" sign? We (the people who run this site) are responsible for what is posted here. That's why I told you to not do that. Your assertion in the message you sent to me to "not worry about it", that you would "take matters into your own hands" won't work. If the site contacts me that you are posting the pictures from and I say, "Oh, you need to talk to this kid in Pennsylvania about that...." - well, that wouldn't fly. Charlie
Wow, I commend you Charlie. You are a way more patient and logical man than I! That being the case, here is how I see the internet: The Internet is an amusement park, you have to pay an admission fee. Once in the park, you are "free" to browse but most of the rides (aka websites and their pictures,etc.) charge a fee to ride. Now this might be a simple fee like asking permission or a larger one like actually having to pay for something. What I am saying is that some people actually make their livelihood off of these pictures. Just think about someone taking money out of your pocket just because they thought that they had a right to do so. (which is exactly what would happen if you open yourself up to litigation.) All everyone here is basically saying is to protect yourself. Russ
Well it seems that I'm "out gunned", I'm not gonna come back here cause some people just don't understand what I said. Looks like I only have one friend on here and thats Watash! So long, I won't be here for a very long time cause you can't understand what I meant. Besides I don't think all of you guiys liked me in the first place, Watash is the only true friend I got on here! BYE!
