I hope this is the right place for this post. I looked and couldn't find a section for SP&S. So I have a birthday coming up soon(ish) and I was thinking trying getting the Walthers Empire Builder to put behind my SP&S 700. From what the Friends of the 700 say, the 700 did pull the Empire Builder but I'm just wondering how realistic this would be and if anyone else has done this. Also, if I do get it, one of the dome cars will get branded as SP&S owned, but stay in GN colors like the real one. As it stands I have 3 SP&S locomotives and 4 IHC cars in SP&S colors. The IHCs have issues and it just seems like a waste to assign the 700 to freight or unrealistic SP passenger service since its the pride of the roster and is in its "fair well to steam" silver smoke box. I'd rather assign the Bachmann SP War Babies to that sort of work. I'm in HO scale. Josh
Josh- Someone is stretching facts a little bit. The SP&S did not handle THE Empire Builder. THE Empire Builder ran through Chicago-Spokane to Seattle- Where SP&S did not go.... What they are confusing for you, is that at Spokane, there was a section of the Builder pulled off, and taken to Portland. And in the reverse, the eastward Builder had cars added which came from Portland. These actions are true today as well, where at Spokane the same procedures are used for Amtrak ("Empire Builder") Trains 7 & 8. The Portland portion is "Thru cars..." and designated as being Amtrak ("Empire Builder") Trains 27 & 28. But that latter is hardly THE Empire Builder. A public timetable from the appropriate time period will often tell you what types and quantities of cars would have been in the Portland section. This can vary, seasonally. Boxcab E50
From what I've found it looked like (and still is) the section that goes to Portland was made of a few coaches, an observation car, a sleeper or two, and probably a baggage car. I'm hoping to get two coaches, a Dome car, a few sleepers, and the end observation car. Did GN call their Dome Cars observation cars or coaches? I keep finding different types of Dome cars such as "Observation Dome," "Coach Dome," and "Sleeper Dome" all advertised differently across railroads. At any rate I want a dome car regardless of its use to Portland because I like them and I only have one right now. As for the Amtrak EB from Portland, I rode it to North Dakota in a sleeper on the bottom level. It seemed that Amtrak just took the first few cars at the front to Portland (back in 2006). It was a nice trip, but I was a little sad I slept through the tunnel. I think I did see the George Mortimer Pullman car (The last Pullman car) as well.
Last time I rode the Builder (ATK), was summer of 2008. The train was sold out and I do not know how many cars total before Spokane. Westward they took off two coaches and two sleepers for Portland. Then delayed us 45 minutes by adding an engine which had apparently been on a special movement, plus two private cars, onto the head end. Several waits and more, afterward, we were late, late, late. I was too pooped when I rode it east a couple of months later. Didn't see what they added. We were early, so had to wait on the Portland section. The GN domes were indeed different configurations inside. Hmmm. I never paid any attention to whether or not the dome location itself varied. Maybe? Or not? Boxcab E50
From what I can find, BN's ads for the late 40's and early 50's just say "lounge car with sleepers" and "observation car" along with dinner service from Chicago to Portland coming soon. I know what lounge car their talking about, but the observation car seems sort of vague. I mean is it a end car, dome car configured for observation or a full length two level "dome car?" I also found this on a museum site for SP&S's contribution to the Spokane to Portland leg based on the 1951 configuration, Baggage-dormitory 75. 48 reclining-seats coach 350. (Later became GN 1232.) Dining-parlor car 405. (32 table seats, 12 parlor seats.) Six roomette, three double bedroom, buffet, lounge cars 600 "Mount Hood" and 601 "Mount St. Helens." I hope to know more after my copy of "Spokane, Portland & Seattle Color Guide to Freight & Passenger Equipment" arrives. At any rate the Dome Car I get should be the 1332 even though it didn't start service until 1955. It looks like the Walthers cars didn't start service until 1955 which is a few years after (1953?) the 700s stopped most passenger service so my prototypical idea is out the window. :tb-sad: :thumbs_down:
Remember that 1951 was deep into the Korean War, so passenger traffic would have been effected (increased) by that. Boxcab E50
So, first question: Where int he heck did you find an SP&S 700? Brass maybe? Something you might find fun as well, is see if you can dig up the Empire Coaches in the same names that 700 is using today. Or not, but a nice double touch there, as you can say 100% without a doubt that they belong there.
Yes, its the SP&S 700 by Sunset and yes it is brass. Its also the only full brass stock I own, and Sunset claims its fully insulated and "DCC ready." It was supposed to have sound but the tender failed a road test, so I got the last 700 my store had and it was without sound. Since its my only brass anything, where the 700 goes the rest will fallow since it has the least tolerances for layouts. I also decided against joining a club once because they didn't allow brass. As for what the OHRF has for rolling stock, thats a bit tricky. Doyle and friends have some interesting stock. One of the guys at my LTS is trying to do something similar, but some of their cars are rather unique (he is trying to gather info on the Steam gen car for starters). From the cars I have seen the OHRF run, I think 2 of the 5 I'm wanting are close to the ones they own. When it comes to their locomotives, I'm only missing a F7A and a 4-6-2 thats similar to the OR&N 197. I have a 4-6-2 by IHC, but it would take some bashing (and a oil tender) to come close. The SP&S 1332 I think thats privately owned now after serving with Amtrak's heritage fleet for a long time. I think I like that dome car because it beat the odds and is still operational. Back to the EB, I found that GN started the streamline trains just before SP&S got its passenger diesels so the 700s did pull streamlined EB sections for a few months. I think their first passenger diesels where F3s or PA-1s. At any rate I have a PA-1 in SP&S colors. Whats funny is if the cars are right, the smoke box won't be, but I can't have everything. Interesting side note, I went to Garibaldi last year and got to see the BN F7A #274 thats "rail locked."
So my birthday came way early this year. My wife and I went to the LTS and during the inspection of my f59 wiring (first time I ever rewired a loco myself) my wife walks up with all 10 Walthers EB cars plus an extra Dome Car. I should be able to make the Portland section with those. Also, does anyone know if anyone makes a paint that matches Walthers' GN green? I have the decals for SP&S (came with the cars) but all the cars are marked for GN.
Just take youirself some MocroSol and put it on a paintbrush. Apply to the letterboard, and with either the end of the brush beyod the bristles or an eraser, rub at the GN lettering. If you can find some paint, have it on hand for patching if you work it too hard, but the Micro shouldn't take the paitn up. Floquil Pullman Green ought to be fairly close.
Sorry, I ment FAs. I know they had those and 866 is with the 700 and 4449 now. I'd like to get a b-unit at some point. I noticed that SP&S ran mostly Alcos with a few EMD and Baldwin locos mixed in after the switch to diesel. Thanks Flashwave I'll have to try that. We're still trying to find a hobby store here that carries a decent selection of paints. The LTS has a great selection of stock and parts, but is a little weak on paint. I just remembered that I need a FA, a 4-6-2, a F7A, and the very strange "trackmobile" to finish off the Brooklyn Roundhouse's roster. I have everyone else in some form or another. As for the rolling stock, Doyle and friends have a very very interesting mix, but its hard to tell whats what since its all owned by different people and spans many different RRs. 4449steam on youtube has some good footage of the stock they have.
This should account for,oh 90% of Brooklyn rollingstock. http://myweb.msoe.edu/~westr/4449.htm I;m curiois to see your DLMX 231. I'll show you mine... (Preoof that I suck at pinstriping. The paint lines are actually fairly straight...)
Nice, I knew someone had to make that eventually. I did use the safe phrase of "some form or another." I have 2 f40s, but they are assigned to trains. One is for my superliners and the other is dead (I killed it) and assigned to the end of the Cascades. I was looking at your link (thanks by the way) and I forgot about the Alco RSD-5. I'm still not sure I want the SDP-40f thats now a SDF40-2 in a PowerPuff paint scheme. Any word on if P&W changed its FRA blue card from NRMX to DMLX yet or are they going to keep it under the National Railroad Museum?
SP&S Empire Builder In the days of steam the GN SP&S Empire Builder was made up of heavyweight cars. The Empire Builder was streamlined in 1947. 700 might have pulled some streamlined cars then. The dome coaches didn't arrive until 1955 and by then the SP&S was fully dieselised. As was mentioned there were cars removed from the GN Empire Builder and these were forwarded to Portland by the SP&S. Usually it was two Pullmans and two coaches. In the streamlined era after 1955 it was a Dome coach and one each "River" series Pullman and "Pass" series Pullman. There were two "Pass" series Pullmans. The first had 8 Duplex Roomettes 4 Bedrooms and 4 Sections and were from 1947. The second "Pass" series had 6 Roometts, 5 Bedrooms, & 2 Compartments and were from 1951. The 6-5-2 car is the one Walthers made and Rapido Trains makes the 8-4-4 car.
The current Portland section has the observation car, a couple coachs and a sleeper. One engine can handle the train from Portland to Spokane with no problem. Kevin
No clue. I live in Indiana, so I'm a tad out of the loop. There's also one more loco no longer owned as far as I know in a cross Daylight/NYC scheme, if you ever get all the engiens accounted for. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.trainweb.org/westernrails/or/dlmx_743_7-30-87_jb.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.trainweb.org/westernrails/or/or_ind.html&usg=__XQWZU91NjrezjWC3AeW_ue8LZjQ=&h=559&w=800&sz=148&hl=en&start=0&sig2=q31ky7GO1j0BsRCa0QS-vg&zoom=1&tbnid=GPgrmkjymWTj9M:&tbnh=126&tbnw=163&ei=lyaUTcHWIYy6tgfKx6iPDA&prev=/images%3Fq%3DDLMX%2B743%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox%26rlz%3D1I7ADFA_en%26biw%3D1579%26bih%3D691%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=114&vpy=89&dur=20&hovh=188&hovw=269&tx=93&ty=140&oei=iiaUTbLVHI2dgQeKwP24CA&page=1&ndsp=32&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0 Sorry, I'll let you get back to the GN/SP&S.
Its ok. As far as I know that later became MRL 391 and was scraped. :tb-sad: AS for the Empire Builder, it looks like some of the cars might be right since the 700s lasted on the EB up till the late 40's. But at any rate the orhf and friends own enough similar or real EB cars that it won't look to weird. While we're on the subject of the SP&S 700 and Empire Builder, has anyone made a donation to the ORHF? For those not in the loop, after years of delay UP is finally going to take down the Brooklyn Roundhouse in January. From what I've Gathered it sounds like most of the stock not in the roundhouse has been moved out and The City of Portland (the owner of the 4449, 700, and 197) has loaned ORHF the money to buy a new site, but not enough to build on it. It also doesn't sound like their are any hard feelings towards UP since this has sort of been in the works tentatively for years.
Thats sad. This feels a little dated but gives an idea of what happened to the Empire Builder. Great Northern Empire - Then and Now Looks like the Empire is all over the country now with some preserved cars.
