I don't see what all the complainig is about on realistic speeds for N scale locos. Just dont turn the power up so much. If you are not cordinated enough to do this then you probably can't walk and chew gum and the same time either. Who care how fast they go. There are more important issues in N scale than this one. This issue will not dominate this forum like the Atlas forum has.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scott Siebler: I don't see what all the complainig is about on realistic speeds for N scale locos. Just dont turn the power up so much. If you are not cordinated enough to do this then you probably can't walk and chew gum and the same time either. Who care how fast they go. There are more important issues in N scale than this one. This issue will not dominate this forum like the Atlas forum has.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Could not have been said any better then that!!!
I agree with all all of you as well. I don't see what the big fuss is, just run the locomotive at the speed you would like. I kinda like the fastness of Atlas and Kato locomotives because if my engines brake off from my train at a club show, and there is another train coming behind it, I can back them up VERY fast, re couple, and be on my way. Just my honest opinion
Rember the old saying: "It's a poor craftsman that blames his tools". As a model railroad engineer, it's your responsibility to run your loco at the correct speeds. Some low-speed performance problems really are not the loco's falut at all, and could be caused by dirty track, dirty wheels, poor contact somewhere in the power pick-up/transfer area, mis-aligned drive shafts, dry motor bearings, etc. Also, with DCC, this becomes moot, as you can completely alter the speed curve of any loco. Food for thought... MOPAC 1
Hi All, Most people agree that it is a loco's ability to run slowly (and smoothly) that is most appealing but has anyone actually tried measuring this as a scale speed. I have been writing a few model reviews recently and decided to try just that. If I have got my N-scale calculations correct I estimate that a loco that I deem to be a really good runner should be able to run steadily at about 4 m.p.h. This is on level, clean track with simple analogue control. Any comments or suggestions ?? Take care, John
At one time, there was a young lad in our club, with a chart, and a digital stop-watch. He would measure a certain distance on the track and tell us to run what we thought was a reasonable, prototypical speed, and invariably we were running much faster than we thought! After a few of these sessions, we had a much clearer feeling of what was a 'proper' speed to run.
If an N scale mile is 33 feet, it should take 60 seconds to travel 33 feet to equal 60 mph. Likewise, 30 seconds to travel 16.5 feet or 15 seconds to travel 8.25 feet. 33 ft = 60 secs 16.5 ft = 30 secs 8.25 ft = 15 secs. Other speeds can be derived from this 8.25 ft = 30 sec = 30 mph. etc. In my experience, we would not be very happy if our locomotives went a scale top speed. It is just too slow sometimes. The other thing that needs to be remembered is: You have no load on the loco, just running it around. If you weight your cars to NMRA standards you may need 2 locomotives to even get it moving. This adds a lot to the realism for me. I have been experimenting with DCC 28 speed steps. My decodered locos are set for a top speed of about 80 mph unloaded. By the time I put 25 Weighted cars behind 2 or 3 locos, the top speed comes down to about 70 mph. I have just enough room to give extra power for a grade without slowing too much. All in all, a realistic top speed is within reach. [ 01 April 2001: Message edited by: Drew Aldridge ]
You guys really like running your locos at 200 mph? When I see guys do stuff like that, all I can think is that they're "playing" with toy trains. Even the most prototypical operating session, with superdetailed locos, CTC machine-the whole kabit- is fruitless if you run your locos at 100, 150 mph! When I run my trains, Im sometimes scorned for running too slow..which is like 20 mph. I personally do not care how everyone else runs, but my opinion is its silly. Mike
I was scolded over and over at a club for not slowing my engine down enough when trying to couple onto someone else's cars. If they did it at "my" speed, it was OK, but not for me to do. I removed the 40:1 gear set, and replaced it with an 86:1 then went back. When I just cracked the throttle (from OFF to very first contact), my drivers would turn at the same speed as the second hand on a watch, I was happy with it. I could only couple to cars with old time Mantua couplers, but if they were K-D's, I had to have them over the magnet inorder to couple, but there were no more complaints. (I was the only one that could go that slowly.) Top speed was about 60 scale mph, and fast enough for me. Some of the kids wanted to go really fast, wide open, so we removed our good engines and let them play/run for an hour, then we went back to serious running. Now I have pulse control, so any engine will slow down to one revolution per minute. I suppose DCC does the same thing.
TO rsn48: 128 speed step does not allow forward and reverse trim. Yes it has v max mid and start but this does not allow for reverse speed trimming. Some locos do not run at exactly the same speed in both directions. I also feel that the 28 speed step has allowed me to choose a more realistic speed curve. That is why I chose 28 speed steps. [ 01 April 2001: Message edited by: Drew Aldridge ]
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by atirns: You guys really like running your locos at 200 mph? When I see guys do stuff like that, all I can think is that they're "playing" with toy trains. Even the most prototypical operating session, with superdetailed locos, CTC machine-the whole kabit- is fruitless if you run your locos at 100, 150 mph! When I run my trains, Im sometimes scorned for running too slow..which is like 20 mph. I personally do not care how everyone else runs, but my opinion is its silly. Mike<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Who says we are running them at 200mph?! NOBODY, NOT ONE OF US HAS SAID THAT! We just don't care if they run that fast as long as they run smooth at low speeds!!!
Yes, no-one is advocating running at rediculous speeds. Just because they are capable of doing so, does not mean that we have to. When I had an HO European layout for exhibitions, I actually put a limit on the rotation of the controller knob, to prevent too fast running by anyone who may run the layout for me during meal or comfort breaks
I think the main point someone, who will remain nameless, was trying to make over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again on the Atlas Forum was same speed operation for MU'ing. I, just as almost everyone else, think this is a way over blown subject and the furthest thing from importance for our Scale and Hobby. Would it be nice if all our locos ran the same speeds at any given throttle setting? Sure. Is it going to end our Hobby if they don't, NOPE! I hope this subject doesn't get as silly here as it did on Atlas, we don't need that here...
To Drew: Interesting, I hadn't thought about problems in reverse. I'm just so happy to get the engine going forward properly....lol. Are you running Digitrax (we are), might try out your suggestion.
For the ones that have trouble running their trains at less than twelve volts, here is a simple suggestion; the current Atlas/Kato mechinisms would lend themselves rather nicily to a NWSL gear change over. The main idea here being is for you to do it and stop bugging the manufacturers about it, come up with this drop in replacement and you will corner this small market for yourselves!! [ 02 April 2001: Message edited by: squirrelkinns ]
Your right, no one did say anything about running at 200 mph, but I see it all too common and fell if we "slow" things down in the mechanical department, maybe a more serious outlook can be brought into N scale. But sorry about that. I am going to see into NWSL gears and motors, but their current website and their catolog is so confusing that its tough. But this really shouldnt be my problem. Suggesting that I start my own company to produce gears is absurd. Already paying $100+ just to have to rip out its interior to make it run better is unacceptable. But this is my opinion, so you dont have to run it into me. Ill stop at that. Mike
Yes I am running Digitrax. I have worked out a good 28 speed step chart ( different than in the Digitrax manual). The top speed step is based on a good maximum speed. That way, all my locos are running at close to 100% speed scale. Of course some are above and some below. I now have 7 locos that are about as close matched both forward and backward as possible. It is really neat to look down on a consist of locos and know that all are working together to pull the train. No couplers are bunched up between locos or scraping wheelsets from being dragged along. The thing I look forward to the most is when I get some of my 4 axle locos Decodered and able to run them with six axle locos. I see that quite often out here in Southern California
I understand the desire of the manufacture to allow different engines to be able to have a similar speed charicteristic so that they can be mu'd but I also value the ability of an engine to be geared to a slower operating speed. Wouldn't a slower gearing put less strain on the motor, increase pulling power (of course one must consider the weight of the locomotive). My feeling is that an important charicteristic of the quality of a locomotive is my ability to run the engine at the slowest speed possible smoothly. I am sure that from a manufactures standpoint, having similar gearing can be an importantant factor in buying a new locomotive to be mu'd with exhisting ones. I am also that current locomotives by Kato, Atlas, and LL are much improved in their low speed running ability.
