Well I saw CBS news tonight. It seems UP wants to be paid for allowing it's logo, and the logos from its absorbed roads, to be used on model trains. This is no longer about protecting its image. It smacks of GREED! You would think a company would be tickled pink to have its company logo on toys, and for free too. But nooo. I know a few years ago UP wanted a fee from the model and decal manufacturers as a way to protect its corporate image. I can understant that. But when they threw in the roads they merged; what corporate image is there left to protect? It is GREED, GREED and More GREED.
I agree. I think it's some hot-shot kid just out of college trying to get it good with the CEO. This is very greedy and their isn't much we as model railroaders that we can do about it. If we boycott all UP ( oooo-no I just is UP their going to send me a bill) models than UP( I said it again) won't suffer the model mufacturers will suffer.If the maufacturers refuse to pay then UP(ahhh) will put shut them down. I just don't get it. UP( again) gets FREE advertisment. Most companies would LOVE FREE advertisment. UNION PACIFIC(I said it again, bill me, bill me!) needs to take a second look at their slogen . This is not "Building America" this is capitalism at its worst. Next thing you know UP will want money from all past purchases with their name on it.
Actually, the people who see model trains lettered for Union Pacific aren't the target audience for UP advertising. UP advertising is aimed at business owners, marketing and shipping managers, and people in similar positions. Therefore, the free "advertising" offered by model railroaders is wasted on the wrong people. Mind you, I strongly believe that UP has overreached in trying to license their name and logos, especially for their predecessor railroads, and wish it wasn't happening. However, they do have the right to license their name - look at Coca-Cola and the NFL as examples of licensing, and consider how much manufacturers of their licensed products have to pay (a lot more than UP is asking). They just happen to be a bit heavy-handed in carrying out their plans. Pat
We went through this with Chessie System some time back, when they even went so far as putting the little circle-R mark next to the kitten-on-a-pillow logo. It must have been worked out OK, 'cause there are still Chessie models on the market. Any company has the right to protect their trademark so it isn't used in a bad way- that won't get an argument from me. I have to wonder if the suits in Omahaha have a clue about the model railroad industry, however. They're beginning to look like (obscene phrase for equine posterior). Perhaps a little more light on the scheme will cause these greedy cockroaches to scatter.
Here's some help if you want to make your voices of protest heard. From the MoPac Yahoogroup: > On a whim, I called the Trademark Office today. They told me an individual can file a letter of protest (no fees) by mailing the letter to: > > Commissioner for Trademarks > 2900 Crystal Drive > Arlington, Virginia 22202-3514 > > the applicaiton numbers must be referenced. > > Since these are applications for use in manufacturing model railroad equipment, with enough letters of protest that the names, logos etc. have been in use within the industry for 50+ years, the application may be DOA. > > I intend to send a letter. If we all do, we cannot be ignored. > And this: >> Section 1715 of the TMEP (Trademark Manual of Examining Procedure) is entitled: "Letters of Protest in Pending Applications", at > http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/tac/tmep/1700.htm#_Toc674575 > > Which begins: > "Protests from third parties who object to the registration of marks in pending applications must be sent in writing to the Office of the Commissioner for Trademarks. The Administrator for Trademark Identifications, Classification and Practice (Administrator) will determine whether the information should or should not be given to the examining attorney for consideration. " [ 19. December 2003, 18:24: Message edited by: friscobob ]
I agree that companies have a right to protect their name. But this is not protection, this is greed. "Let's see how much money we can get off of people who buy products just because it has our name on it on top of the billions of dollars that we make a year". Despite who sees the models or who the UP name is geared to it is still FREE advertisment for UP. If I say Wal-Mart I'm advertisment Wal-Mart for FREE regardless of the fact that the person I'm talking to only shops at K-Mart. It seems that UP has put profits over heritige.
We already pay for the names of other companies like Coka~Cola, FORD, and John Deere. For UP to want to license their name is a reasonable thing. Some of thier conditions for 'rights to tooling' seem unreasonable, and that could be the real risk in this debacle. As far as the fallen flags go, UP has forsaken them and kept thier own name as the prominent moniker (unlike BNSF who has combined names through everstep of it's evolution). Regaurdless of what we think or feel, the courts will decide just how far UP's 'rights' go. A letter writing campaign is the way to have our voices heard.
It's all very interesting. Bob's mention of the Chessie trademark protection campaign of the early 80's is a good case in point for doing the right way. From memory of that time, the basis for Cheesie's action was the owner of the trademarks only requires to be seen to be protecting it. In doing so, Chessie required the manufacturer provide the item for inspection, if you wish. It was to ensure that their trademarked logos and names weren't being used on sub-standard items. The Chessie issue came down to a minimal fee for a manufacturer to use that trademark - ie, being seen to be protecting their trademarks. Correct me if I'm wrong here. This UP thing is different. I am picking up a lot of traffic from various lists, both model and prototype, that are alluding to the recent CBS(?) broadcasted programme that noted it is a money-making exercise as well as trademark protection. If this is the case, I think dvess111 summed it up in his/her second last sentence. Yep, you're not going to find me buying any UP logo'd models. I may even reconsider any purchases of predecessor roads in future. It's hard to imagine modelling the Upper Mid-west without C&NW, MP, Rock Island, and others. My 2c.
You can't compair UP to COKE, FORD, or JOHN DEER. COKE, FORD, and JOHN DEER produce, market, and sale THEIR own products. UP is not in the model railroading business period. UP is trying to get profits off of someone elses work and using their good name as an excuse.
When Athearn came out with models marked for John Deere and Coca-Cola, I'm sure they approached those companies first, and I'm sure a decent agreement was ironed out before those models came out. I could see paying UP a modest fee for the use of the UP shield, plus sending them a prototype of what I was going to use it on. Naturally, UP doesn't want to see their logo on substandard (or illegal) merchandise, and I can respect that. However, they're reaching too far. Which makes me wonder about something- my son's name is Matthew Kyle Thompson, and the initials are MKT. Wonder if the Borg will prosecute me in court for copyright infringement........
If anybody has a link to video of this story on the CBS Evening News, please post. I searched CBS.com and there's nothing about this story airing on the 19th. Thanks
Actually, Coke, Ford and John Deere aren't in the model railroading business either. The last time I looked, soda, cars and lawn tractors didn't have much to do with MRRing. A business is in business to make money, period. Whether or not they tick off a bunch of model-railroaders is of no importance to them. I really don't get the anger directed at UP. They are a business doing business. Nobody I know complained about the fees Pepsi or Hershey's charged MT for the rights to their logos. Nobody griped about the overpaid NFL profitting off of their trademark from Lionel (and everybody else on god's-green-earth) The thing is, if you want to talk about who has more "right" in this case, UP has a whole heck of a lot more to do with model railroading than Pepsi, Hershey, Coke, John Deere, Ford or the NFL. Not that "right" has anything to do with it. It's their logo, their name, their business. I have absolutely no malice towards a company trying to make money. If I don't think their product is worth the price, I simply won't buy it. In the end the courts will decide if UP has a right to their own name and image. I think it would be hypocrisy if they decided against UP though. (except for the fallen flag names/logos since they have neither used or recognised them til now) That's how I see it anyhow. Jacob
Jacob, While I don't have any beef about any company protecting their tradmark, I too am befuddled about their reach to long-gone railroads. If you noticed, though, UP has been seen putting MKT, WP, SP and other fallen-flag reporting marks (not the logos) on certain freight cars. Now this could either be seen as a legally strategic move in preparation of the moves we are seeing, or it has to do with equipment trusts that came along with the predecessor railroads. I have seen a lot of vitriol and venom directed at UP over this move, especially in the MKT camp in Yahoo. One thing I can guarantee everyone here- UP will NOT, repeat NOT, be hurt financially if the model railroad manufacturers stop making models in protest of UP's actions. They are in business to keep the stockholders happy, and to serve shippers (one would say, in that order). If folks want to protest by repainting their UP models, selling them off, or not buying any more, it won't hurt UP at all, even though it would make that person feel he or she has voiced his or her opinion. (Nothing wrong with that). If anything, this has made me detest lawyers and punks in suits all the more.
First off, UP wants not only a percentage of sales, they want total control. UP will require a twice yearly audit. All art work will be presented to them for approval. All designs and related items with the model shall be sent to UP at owners expense for UP to approve. If and when the license is revoked or expires UP wants all materials sent to them. This is black mail IMHO. Also, what is to stop UP from raising the % at time goes on? What is to stop UP from issuing an exclusive license to someone and cutting out 99% of the manufacturers? UP has a right to protect their logo, but not at the expense and on the backs of the model manufacturers. UP doesn't tell this part of the story; you have to apply for a license to find out this jewel. Greg Elems
You seem to have missed the point completely. The companies I mentioned as well as many more (like those mentioned by Jacob) do not produce any MRRing products. Through reasonably licensed agreements with manufatures such as ATLAS, Athearns, Micro Trains, and others, their trademarked name, logo, and even colors are used to produce an assortment of items for use in MRRing. As an example, John Deere has very strick standards on the quality of merchandise that their name and trademark John Deere green color is applied to in order to "protect" their company image. A quick look at the Walthers reference book shows that there are "green" tractors available but do not have the level of detail that the Athearn models do. As a result, there is a difference in the price. UP is simply trying to establish their own contractural agreements with manufactures for using thier "good name". If a manufacture feels that the terms of the contract are unreasonable they can choose to not sign on, which means not producing UP related items. If MRRers disagree with an item being higher priced because it is UP, we can choose not to buy it. So yes, I CAN compare UP to Coka~Cola, FORD and John Deere, it is a valid perspective.
Tim, after trying a half dozen times with the other url I sent you, I think I have one that works. I tested it on a computer that did not have the video cached and it worked, so give this one a try... CBS Video of UP Licensing Issue story
Tim, after trying a half dozen times with the other url I sent you, I think I have one that works. I tested it on a computer that did not have the video cached and it worked, so give this one a try... CBS Video of UP Licensing Issue story </font>[/QUOTE]Doug, Got it! Thanks a bunch. I'm sure everybody else here appreciates it, too. One more favor: Can you copy it to a CD? I tried on my burner, but had difficulty. You're the computer geek, you know! Thanks again!
One other point that has not been discussed- UP also wants us to pay extra for models of SP, WP, DRGW, MP and CNW, plus the predecessors of the above roads. UP I can see, in a way, but the "fallen-flag" roads? No way you can sell that bill of goods to me. If UP is in such rough shape that they would even think to glean extra chas for, say, models of the KO&G or CGW, they must be in sad shape indeed. Or just flat-out greedy. THAT move, and THAT move alone, is what gets my blood pressure worked up.
I can appreciate that, and I agree. I'm flabergasted that they now want to claim rights to names they have done there best to obliterate.
