Hello guys, Can you take a look at that layout, and tell me how to do the wiring for DCC since I have the cross over (KATO unitrack) and the reverse loop? I know DCC principle, but not about those specific items (cross over and reverse loop) I plan to buy a NCE power cab this week Thank you
Hello guys, Nobody to help me? For the reverse loop, I think I'm OK (see picture with insulated joiners) But I don't know what to do for the double crossover (KATO)...Because it's also a kind of reverse loop, isn't it? Thanks
I'm surprised no one else has replied (still sleeping off the christmas turkey?), so I'll have a go. I've taken that picture and tried drawing a red line around one rail to see where it crosses over itself, and the two places I found are that crossover and the straight ahead section of the top right point. I've never met a Kato crossover, but Looking at http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches_kato.htm - part of the excellent Wiring For DCC website, I can see that making that crossover any part of a reverse loop is just asking for trouble. Reverse loops in general are easy in DCC. You can do the DC trick of a DPDT switch and throw it manually; or you can buy an Auto-Reverse module to do it for you. Auto-Reversers come in two varieties, simple (just four wires) and "portal" (six or eight wires). I like the simple ones. Two wires to the track bus, two wires to the isolated section. The isolated section must be longer than your longest engine consist If you light cars, it must be longer than your longest lit train gap both rails Multiple trains may not enter or exit the isolated section simultaneously (that last one doesn't help with the cross-over neither) Blue lines are where I've gapped the rails. You may be able to move these points, as you know how many trains you want and how long they are. Just remember that trains must not touch two blue lines (for the same reverser) at the same time. Orange lines are one output wire of a reverser module (the adjacent rail will be the other output wire) Red lines are your main track bus. Note that you need two reverse modules, one for the track in the tunnel, around the left and along the back. That's the best I can come up with, I hope it's helpful?
There are many reverse loop modules available that are easy to use when wiring a reverse loop on a DCC layout. The module consists of four wires that require connections. Two wires are connected to your track before a train enters the module. The remaining two wires are connected to the rails within the module. The reverse loop module automatically changes polarity of the rails when a train enters and leaves the reverse loop. The most important rule to follow for reverse loops, is that the train within the reverse loop must be shorter than the reverse loop itself. If the length of the train is longer than the reverse loop, a short circuit will occur. If by chance you have more than one reverse loop on a layout, each train on the layout MUST be shorter than the shortest reverse loop. Each reverse loop requires it's own reverse loop module. If you use one reverse loop module to control two reverse loops, at some point, you're going to short out your system when two trains enter both reverse loops at the same time. The JJJ&E has four reverse loops and one turntable. Each is controlled by it's own reverse loop module. Stay cool and run steam....
frecnh_guy, Are you trying to keep us up all night? :unsure8ao: I think your above observation is correct. How would it work to treat the double crossover and enough of the bottom two tracks (to a length longer than your longest train) as a reversing section? If insulating rail joiners were placed on the two bottom tracks just to the left of the double crossover and at the end of the passing track just above, the yard could remain part of the mainline. Additional insulated joiners could be placed anywhere to the right on each of the two bottom tracks as long as the trackage is longer than your longest train. I'm not familiar with the wiring of the double crossover. Unless there is a way to insulate the separate parts of it you would be stuck with one humongous reversing section that only one train at a time could travel. It will require some thought to decide if this is acceptable. Another train would have to be have to be halted while the first one traveled the section. This is my first thought and the only one I see so far. It might be unacceptable and there may be a better way. And I hope I have not duplicated someone else's suggestion. Tomorrow I will read the ones that were added while I was studying your plan. Great plan if it can be made to work. Ben
Unless I'm missing something, you will need three controlled reversing sections. (controlled by either an autoreverser circuit or toggle switch) I've colored in the three sections on the drawing.
Ho ho, Someone says 2 sections, and someone says 3!!! I thought my question was pretty simple... Doug, can you give me more details to explain why 3 sections with 3 modules (or switches) Thanks,
The question was simple. The layout is a bit more difficult. I like the three reversing sections as drawn by doug. You could combine the green and the blue sections into one reverser, but then you can only run one train at a time on those sections.
It probably will work with two since the Unitrack turnouts are power routing. But if you run more feeders you're gonna run into the potential for short like Bob mentioned. Just try it with two and see.
I wouldn't imagine that this layout was so complicated...My previous layout (many years ago) was all DC with blocks. I thought that going DCC was something really simple for the wiring! So I now have 2 options: 1-simplify the layout. 2-keep it "as is" and use 3 reverse modules. Do you have recommendations for the reverse module? I'm still hesitating between NCE power cab or Digitrax Zephyr DCC starter sets Thanks
You can use any reversing module you want. They all are equally good. Why simplify the layout. It isn't complicated. Wiring the reverse loop is easy. two wires connected to the track before the reverse loop and two wires connected inside the reverse loop. Don't forget to isolate the reverse loop with plastic rail joiners at both ends of the loop. Try two reverse loop modules at first. If you need a third one, buy it. Sometimes you can't plan it all in advance. Lay out the track and then run trains through all the track. The train will short out in any reverse loop that needs a module. As for DCC systems, in the end you have to make the final choice between the NCE Power Cab and Digitrax Zephyr.Both systems are more than adequate for your needs. Have fun... Stay cool and run steam......
Let's just clarify that all these issues about train length only matter if you have metal wheels on your cars...otherwise only engine consist length matters. Now, regarding the reverse sections, I don't necessarily know what I'm talking about, but is there any reason it couldn't be done like this? (The inner reverse loop above would be wired with the main.)
Yep, I think Ben gets the prize...looks like that solution will work without risk of shorting. Give that man a cigar!
I'm all out of cigars. I've got a decoder that smokes when you apply power; that do? I wonder if the two sidings on the upper level need to be on the (green) reverse loop also? Obviously the top right turnout does, because that's the point where the two paths cross/meet.
The sidings wouldn't have to be, they could be on the main track bus...or on their own power district I guess but I don't know why that would be needed. (you are referring to the stub-end "industry" sidings, correct?)
The layout concept is not complicated - a single mainline 3 times around. The reverse loop that you have identified is not complicated - it is useful but does not affect mainline running. The complicator is the double crossover at a place where parallel tracks are normally opposite in polarity. There are actually two opportunities for reversing combined into one. Why not omit the double crossover? Other than looking "pretty" it contributes little. The plan is mainly a train watching layout and you have two passing sidings so that more than one train can be operated. The only other operation is moving trains/cars between the two yards/sidings. The one reverse loop can be used to reverse the direction of trains/locos - moving forward or in reverse. Probably more interesting than simply reversing at mainline speed. There is no difference in establishing the parameters of reverse loops/sections for DC or DCC. In both cases they have to be electrically isolated from mainline running. The wiring is basically the same after you have isolated them. The type of control may be different but that is your choice. Or you could move your question to the layout planning forum. The question involves determining where the reversing sections are located rather than wiring. Ben
There should be no need to eliminate the double-XO, we have at least three viable wiring options for the layout now.
Yes. The double crossover turns both of the two end loops of your dogbone into potential reversing loops. The red section deals with this issue. The blue loop in Doug's suggestion serves the same purpose on the other end. Both my suggestion and ATSF Admirer's allow you to combine the loop created by the double crossover with the additional loop on the upper level, allowing you to buy and install just two reversing units. There are actually many options for where to start and stop this section. I included the upper level spurs in the green reverse section only to make it longer, and because I figure any loco switching those spurs will be tying up that part of the layout anyway.
