Hello Wayno, You've inherited an interesting layout. If you also inherited all of the locomotives, they are probably locked up with Hardened Oil Syndrome (H.O.S.). That issue can usually be resolved. The method used depends on the locomotive and your experience. I own 7 of the Christmas sets with the new motor with the "bell-shaped armature". They appear to be can motors. The armature is inside so I can't see if it's actually bell-shaped. These new motors are a significant improvement over any of the older motors. I have started replacing the old 3-pole and 5-pole motors in all of my Marklin Pacific (4-6-2) locomotives with the new motors. All of the locomotives with the new motors run quieter and smoother than the old motors. I also run them for extended hours without the motors heating up. I run my trains almost every waking hour of almost every day. I haven't had any trouble with any of the new motors. I hope this helps.
"but are "bell shaped armature" motors better than what I have now?" oh my my, oh yeah, but.....the locomotives marklin is "assembling" now in Asia and Hungary are not of the same quality caliber from what they made in Goppingen. "Quote" The (newest Marklin) loco in my set arrived with poor/non-working running characteristics, one truck stiff and seized (angled upward not parrellel to underside of shell): trucks should rock gently up and down with wheel-sets able to make contact with track. Taking the loco apart and reassembled fixed the problem: something was out of sync likely due to shipping. Not a big deal, but I would advise sending defective items back to Marklin thus receiving full warranty coverage, I don’t advise following my lead. "End Quote" "Quote" Out of the box this loco ran rough in forward and stopped, but it ran well in reverse. End Quote. This on the new maintenance- free direct replacement motor for the existing old 3 and five pole motors (looks like the old motor, just no openings for you to see the rotor - maintenance-free (teardown comparison of the five pole and closed motor locs are below the AZL-Marklin Loc article teardown) The author has several stories of new Marklins arriving in need of repair, in what is the MOST comprehensive blog of new Marklin on-line ever. In just this one web page listed below, the author answers several of your questions: Article one, the author disassembles a new Marklin locomotive and shows the new "can" motor. here is your takeaway, besides the iffy assembly, the Marklin locomotive insides being built today look remarkably like the AZL locomotives being built today! Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. And as mentioned above, no surprise; Marklin contracted AZL to make US style locomotives for them for a few runs E7s and GP38s. next article in the cornucopia of marklin gold: "Following years of innovation by modelers of Z one such development proved invaluable: marrying coaches with short locomotives. Locomotives of short length and weight have proven to be less than rewarding to operate on the mini-club layouts with turnouts and crossovers with their slight dip in power, short locos are challenged to pass freely through these track features, but one creative minded individual came up with a solution" - read the article for pics and how-to's to solve! more articles on this one web page; Marklin’s New Brushless Motor: Good News Follow-up Marklin F7 A-B-A sets: improving performance Rewiring Marklin 8871 and 88711: ICE trains go fast! how to change a transfer table to a 5 pole motor a review of new buildings/turntable without further ado: https://ztrainsweekly.com/category/marklin-z-repair-notes/ This is just one months article. This author has has made monthly contributions to his website for nine years now! Take the time to read all his articles for the past nine years and you will a very well-informed pro on Marklin Z: past, present, and the next one this guy has on order; as i think he buys every Z product that Marklin makes, and is not afraid to get his hands dirty looking "inside the box". His photography is outstanding!
I am speaking on the performance of the new motor from my personal experience. Way no asked about the new motors. What do you have against Marklin?
I made what I inherited for my dad, it was in a small coffee table and I made it with tunnels, I have determined I do not like tunnels, so I removed what I made back in 2005 and put it into the larger coffee table and added another circuit(now has 3 trains), I removed all the tunnels when I widened what I had made in 2005. I also have been running my locomotives for extended periods of time, one of the 8800 locomotives did get warm/hot, it is now history as the hourglass shaped part on the motor shaft that the brushes rested on lost a chunk of metal out of it, when I tried to run the motor the brush would drop into the hole where the metal came out of and it would push/pull the brush out of position, I have another 8800 locomotive, so I decided the broken one is parts now. All 3 locomotives ran alright when I started getting interested in the coffee table train again, the track needed cleaning though, since then I have used synthetic oil I bought from the hobby shop, another post on here after yours suggested this link on how to get the diesel locomotive apart to oil the gears I cannot see by looking at the bottom, the long steam locomotive is too long for the sharp turns in my coffee table circuits, it jambs in the turns unless it is really moving/going fast, going that fast causes the extra non-pivoting wheels in the front and back(depending on direction) to de-rail in one turnout, and at the next turnout the whole locomotive comes off the track, this steam locomotive is just too long for the sharp turns. The 8878 and 8874 locomotives I have bought recently with 5 pole motors run much quieter than the locomotives I had originally. Thankyou for your reply on the motor question, I expect I should learn how to work on what I have now.
Thankyou for the link, I read about how I might be able to get my diesel locomotive apart to oil the gears, it will take me time to navigate that site.
OK, I bought this track cleaner in this link below and have it now. https://ztrackcenter.com/electronics/controllers/GA1w16V What do the members here do with the power supply, it has a fitting/plug that is meant to be plugged into whatever it is powering, but the box has no such orifice to plug it into, do you cut the plug off? It has 2 wires in the wire, one has a light colored stripe on it, it seems to me that there is a positive(red) and negative(black) wire for this train, in the directions for the power pack/speed control the terminal suppling the power to the track has a positive and negative, it showed that one track rail of the track was supposed to be positive when connecting the wires to the tracks in the directions as I had issues with one powerpack/speed controller(there were pictures, red was on the right as I recall, so which wire is the positive wire, and which connection spot on the unit is the positive side, it shows nothing about positive and negative in the setup directions, you can see this in the photo of the unit. Is the wire side with the light colored line the positive? Which side on the track connection is positive wire? I am sorry as this might be a stupid question, I am just paranoid about smoking another locomotive.
OK, so it don't matter positive or negative for the track, because you have a direction switch on your power pack. So on the AC 16V you hook up the wall power supply, in the middle you connect the track output from your train controller, and on the left you run those 2 wires to the track.
What you're saying the AC 16V power supply which has positive and negative wires, it does not matter which wire goes where as long as it is connected up to the 16vAC terminals? I wrote in "red+" and "neg-" on the paper above because this is how the speed controller I bought directions said to install it to the track, red on the right, neg on the left on the track, otherwise why would the manufacturers even have a red and black side, maybe done that way the locomotive would go right, I like specific directions so no accidents happen, this looks like a luck scenario to me, and this brings me back to how much trouble I had right at first with that new controller that messed up my locomotives, the one is history now(8800), it is parts, the other still will not move slowly like my new locomotives on the same track/circuit will move slowly on, this is the reason I bought the track cleaner, to eliminate that as an issue, that controller was returned and did not work properly on the hobby shop test track when tested with a locomotive. Now I do understand that this track cleaner will not fix everything/all my issues, this is all very confusing to me, I will cut the plug off the end of the 16V AC power supply (2 wires), separate the 2 wires and connect them to the type HF1 deluxe electronic track cleaner unit to the "AC Supply" wire connections, I expect the other wires can be switched if the train moves the wrong direction. I am curious, will the locomotive run smoothly as the cleaner works?
hummm would this thing work with n scale dcc track as well ? does it really clean the track ?? there not much info on this thing......
As I recall the literature I read said it would work on N scale and a few larger scales, I do not know about DCC. Here is a link to wiring it, it suggested it will work on "Z", "N", and "OO", again I have no idea about DCC. https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=ff76...WwuY29tL21lZGlhL2Rvd25sb2Fkcy9oZjEucGRm&ntb=1
AC Supply: So, remember, AC is Alternating Current, an analog sine wave value that has no set polarity. In the US, it swings from positive to negative and back 60 times a second. So it don't matter. Do not confuse positive and negative with Hot and Neutral. So AC goes into the AC input, and it don't matter which of those 2 wires goes to which terminal. This AC gets transformed into a high frequency and high voltage but very low current signal, to be injected on the train controller's DC power. The DC from the train controller supplies the voltage and current that drives your locomotive, but this high frequency, high voltage, low current AC signal gets blended with the DC train controller signal and ONLY burns off dirt and debris that would otherwise stop the low voltage DC train control power from getting to your locomotive motor. It is burning debris from the wheels, the wheel wipers, in between the armature contacts, and motor brushes, etc. It acts to keep the DC current flowing, hence your motor keeps running. ------------------------ Controller: This is your old train controller DC output to the track. It goes into the Gaugemaster middle contacts, and after what I assume, is a bridge rectifier to prevent back-streaming into your train controller, that DC track power gets blended with that HF AC, and goes to the Track Output of the Gaugemaster. ---------------------------- Track: These two terminals is the output to your track. Why do they NOT tell you what is the positive and the negative on the Gaugemaster? Because it don't matter. It don't matter because if it was backwards, the train would go in reverse, and you would simply throw the direction switch on your train controller. SO the only thing the matters is that the AC supply goes to AC Supply terminals, your old train controller track output goes to the Controller terminals, and your track gets connected to the Track terminals. _________________________ IF you mess up and connect your train controller to the Gaugemaster track terminals, then the AC signal that's intended to go to your locomotive will INSTEAD GO TO YOUR OLD TRAIN CONTROLLER, and it might fry the circuitry inside depending on what type of train controller it is. ------------------------------------- EDIT ADD: IT WILL WORK ON N SCALE TOO. IT might FRY DCC decoders, so don't put a DCC loco on a Gaugemaster equipt DC layout. Normally the DCC decoder's bridge rectifier could protect the decoder, but depending on the decoder used, you might just let the smoke out.
I wired it in my #1 circuit, the little light never came on, I cannot tell if it is working. The literature also suggested that complicated tracks could cause it to shut down/disable itself, the only way I could get the light to come on was to remove one of the wires from the track terminal, then the light came on, I also ran it in the dark to see if the light was barely coming on, it was not coming on or flickering. The whole time I was testing it(coffee table and oval test track) I had no issues with the locomotives, I thought for sure that my #1 circuit would be dirty (it has been around mostly unused for 18 years) as the only thing I have used to clean the track has been my fingers/thumb, and thumbnails if super glue got onto the track, the directions also said water based glue could cause issues, but the test track(small oval) is just setting on a piece of plywood, it is neither large or complicated, but it acted the same, the light would only come on if a track wire was removed from the track connection. Is there a way to test it to know it is working?
I received parts in the mail yesterday and today, yesterday an Atlas 19 degree crossing arrived, today the 90 degree crossing arrived(Rokuhan), the package had foot prints all over the back side, one side the track/coupler was bent, I think I fixed both, but all I needed was the plastic clips below the coupler and the coupler(connecter/clip), in a test fit the Atlas Flex track fit it perfectly height wise and it held tight. So today I started on making track bed to use that track I isolated from #3 circuit that I never used. Once I get the 90 degree crossing installed in the first photo I will decide if I am going to use the 19 degree crossing at the other end, then I will connect them together, then make adjustments to try and make hills not so steep, that will likely be the last addition of track I will make to this coffee table train. I do not know about other members, but I have small box cars that are just too light(4 wheels), they shake/wobble while in motion, my one passenger cars needed a small nut put in the front of the car to make it heavier so the locomotive it is connected to would not pull it off the rails in the curve/crossing(this may be another completely different issue), I found both of my tub cars(coal/grain cars with open tops?) need weight it them or they derail or come uncoupled from the car in front of them, and my long flatbed cannot be pulling another car, not even the caboose, I also have one Blue box car that will not stay connected, sometimes when it falls over sideways at this one turn-in the top comes off the bed/wheels, it appears to be the same as my Green boxcar but it has never had this issue, any ideas why other than the one crossing, that one I do understand. I also understand that quick transitions from to level to down hill or going uphill and leveling off too fast can cause uncoupling and I have addressed these spots successfully, but level turns on stock Marlin track baffle me, suggestions would be helpful.
So I installed both crossings that arrived(19 degree and 90 degree), I took my time and did not use a Dremel to make my track cuts as I needed the cuts to be exact, so I used the track saw I bought back in 2005, I succeeded at least halfway, I put both crossings in the #3 circuit, after installing them I ran the train and had no issues with derailments because of the crossing being in a curve or being too lumpy. The far left corner or future circuit one track to the crossing of circuit 3 track, the track just over the crossing is the circuit 1 track turnout section that I will tie into so the train can get back into the original circuit 1 track. Here is the installed crossing next to the circuit 1 track turnout section that I will be tie into, I will not be putting a turn out/turn in here, I will cut the track and tie it into the left, the track on the right will tie into the entrance to the repurposed track(an interesting loop). Here is the 90 degree crossing which is the entrance to the extra loop, this crossing is where that track to the right will lead to. Here is the crossing, both these crossings had my long passenger train go over them at full speed more than once without an issue unless I did not turn down the speed fast enough as both crossings are just before a very sharp turn. So it is very dusty around this work in progress, one of my locomotives started slowing down/changing/not holding an even speed(8874 bought used), I had read some about taking a locomotive apart in one of the links a member provided, I took my American diesel apart first, but this one had no screws to get the trucks off, I was looking at it, the trucks pivot and have this pin that appears to limit how much they can pivot, I could not find any screws to get them apart, on a whim I used a sewing needle and pushed on the pin on one side and it moved towards the other side, I was not thrilled about taking the pin out as I was unsure what would fall out that I cannot see and could I get it back together, but it was the only thing I could see to possibly get the truck out, so I pushed it out while holding the truck in position and lowly dropped the truck down, I looked at what I had and determined that this was easy, I did not know that the top gear was loose as that pin holds it in position, it flew out when I gave it some air, I was lucky I seen it land, anyway I cleaned everything, put some fresh oil made for these locomotives and put it back together, it runs great so I did the 8874 locomotive, what a change that made to that one, it moves way faster than before at the same speed position, normally I had it at 125 on the speed controller and my new locomotive 8878 was at 105ish, now it is the opposite, I have 8874 at 100 and the new one is at 120, its getting dirty also but still holds a steady speed, I am not ready to pull it apart yet. I did pull another one apart as it was not steady either, I only added oil and it is steady again, but I did not expect to see what I seen inside it, is this a brushless motor? It looks like my 8800 locomotive when looking at the bottom.
Many Marklin locomotives share the same chassis, including the 8800 and 8864 series. Yes, that is a can motor or brushless motor. Germans call it a Glockenankermotor (Glocken = bell, as in a church bell). I guess the inside looks like a bell.. this is what the folks at Faulhaber say about it: "The entire rotor, consisting of winding, commutator plate and commutator, is reminiscent of a bell. The motor is therefore also referred to as a bell-type armature motor." It can be regarded, as mentioned above, as the third generation Marklin z scale motor, after the 3-pole and 5-pole motors. So your locomotive here is fairly new. This video shows the inside of the V60 with an original motor (3-pole as far as I can tell). To my experience, the 3-pole motors only run (fairly) well with a PWM (pulse width modulation) power source. If track and locomotive are clean, and power pick up is secured, you can have a lot of fun with those little critters. 5-pole motors are better runners with the original Marklin power packs and still do well with PWM, but show little improvement over 3-pole with PWM. Both are pretty loud. Can motors by Marklin allow for smoother running, and they run quieter; more like AZL or the newer MTL motors. As to what improvement digital brings, I have no experience but there's plenty of people here that can tell you more about that. Matt
I spent about 4hrs(two 2 hour sessions) with a friend yesterday getting his 8800 locomotive running smoothly, most the fight was getting the motor to turn at all under power, I was using a 9V battery unit made by Marklin to power it, it was tough to get the motor to run without any of the gears/wheels installed, we had to help start it with a pin while I supplied the power, I finally got it running 50 percent of the time when applying power without helping it turn to start it, then I got an idea that maybe the track speed controller had more power, the guy had bought two wires with alligator clips on both ends, using that and the speed controller we got it running good, and it would take right off without help. I also told him he needed electrical cleaner, he bought a can at the same time, black muck poured off the gears/wheels, we put it back together, put oil on the gears as it was assembled, and it ran great, like it was new, the only thing damaged was one little spring for the couplers and he chose not to install the front coupler. The whole time we were working on getting it running properly he kept wanting to squirt that electrical cleaner inside the motor itself, I talked him out of it until it ran good, then he did not want to squirt it in the motor anymore, at first he seemed to think there was something inside the motor making it have binding spots, I thought it was just dried oil that was gumming it up(who knows how many years it was in that box), he bought two boxes, each with enough track for an oval circle, they both had a 8800 locomotive, a yellow boxcar, and a red flatbed, and a blue speed controller, the one he sold me was much easier to get running, he buys them at estate sales, he sold me that switcher locomotive I posted a photo of in my last post. I expect describing in detail such stuff might seem weird, but I have found that doing this helps other newbies like me, I have 3 main hobbies, Datsun vehicles(started that one in 1995), telescopes, and this hobby now, I expect gardening is also a hobby. This was my garden a couple years ago in the spring, it has automatic watering, it is a lot more complicated now, the chairs are where I was observing the night sky back then.
Thanks Matt I actually found that video a day or two ago, that person is much better than me at putting them back together, I cannot get the coupler springs to stay on the couplers either, that guy makes it look easy, I lost one of them springs and could not find it, I exhaled when breathing normally, and it blew the spring off my work surface, I finally found it with a magnet, but by that time it had been stepped on and ruined.
